Obama denies Islamic State caused by Islam

Discussion about the Quran, hadith, the history of Islam, etc.
ghost
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Obama denies Islamic State caused by Islam

Post by ghost » Wed Aug 20, 2014 12:08 pm

Has Obama read the Mohammed legend?

http://pamelageller.com/2014/08/obama-u ... slam.html/
“ISIL speaks for no religion. Their victims are overwhelmingly Muslim, and no faith teaches people to massacre innocents.” —President Obama

— The White House (@WhiteHouse) August 20, 2014

LemSat
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Re: Obama denies Islamic State caused by Islam

Post by LemSat » Thu Sep 04, 2014 3:15 am

This is common attitude to ISLAM, denying its being an religion because of some sort of personal conviction about the functions of religion. Which is usually based on some other faith, or simply different culture of the person claiming it. Of course lack of consensus among IMAMS (intentional or not) doesn't help.

andrewcriddle
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Re: Obama denies Islamic State caused by Islam

Post by andrewcriddle » Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:54 am

ghost wrote:Has Obama read the Mohammed legend?

http://pamelageller.com/2014/08/obama-u ... slam.html/
“ISIL speaks for no religion. Their victims are overwhelmingly Muslim, and no faith teaches people to massacre innocents.” —President Obama

— The White House (@WhiteHouse) August 20, 2014
The problem is that IIUC ISIS/ISIL is a form of Wahhabi Islam and (again IIUC) standard Wahhabi teaching lays more stress on the need to punish non-Wahhabi Muslims than on measures against non-Muslims.

Andrew Criddle

Thor
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Re: Obama denies Islamic State caused by Islam

Post by Thor » Thu Sep 04, 2014 1:23 pm

andrewcriddle wrote:
ghost wrote:Has Obama read the Mohammed legend?

http://pamelageller.com/2014/08/obama-u ... slam.html/
“ISIL speaks for no religion. Their victims are overwhelmingly Muslim, and no faith teaches people to massacre innocents.” —President Obama

— The White House (@WhiteHouse) August 20, 2014
The problem is that IIUC ISIS/ISIL is a form of Wahhabi Islam and (again IIUC) standard Wahhabi teaching lays more stress on the need to punish non-Wahhabi Muslims than on measures against non-Muslims.

Andrew Criddle
Perhaps there is a very obvious point being forgotten, like demographics. When alternatives already have been driven away there is only one option left.

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Peter Kirby
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Re: Obama denies Islamic State caused by Islam

Post by Peter Kirby » Thu Sep 04, 2014 1:24 pm

When the President says something like that, he's not interested in its truth value as much as its political value.

At the same time, nobody can really deny that he is at least partially right; ISIL doesn't "speak for a religion," and I'm not sure that any single person or organization today can claim to speak for Islam as a whole.
"... almost every critical biblical position was earlier advanced by skeptics." - Raymond Brown

Thor
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Re: Obama denies Islamic State caused by Islam

Post by Thor » Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:59 pm

Peter Kirby wrote:When the President says something like that, he's not interested in its truth value as much as its political value.

At the same time, nobody can really deny that he is at least partially right; ISIL doesn't "speak for a religion," and I'm not sure that any single person or organization today can claim to speak for Islam as a whole.
Well... If there was someone who said “ISIL speaks for no religion”, it would be a claim to speak for Islam as a whole. To know what it is not requires knowledge of what it is.

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Peter Kirby
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Re: Obama denies Islamic State caused by Islam

Post by Peter Kirby » Thu Sep 04, 2014 3:11 pm

Thor wrote:
Peter Kirby wrote:When the President says something like that, he's not interested in its truth value as much as its political value.

At the same time, nobody can really deny that he is at least partially right; ISIL doesn't "speak for a religion," and I'm not sure that any single person or organization today can claim to speak for Islam as a whole.
Well... If there was someone who said “ISIL speaks for no religion”, it would be a claim to speak for Islam as a whole. To know what it is not requires knowledge of what it is.
"To speak for" and to speak about are not the same thing.

The former implies authority and particularly the right to invent on behalf of - like someone saying that Christians should believe that Jesus will come back to earth in the year 2016.

The latter implies nothing more than a recognition of the authorities of the past, like someone saying that Christians historically believe in a Jesus that was executed by Pilate.
"... almost every critical biblical position was earlier advanced by skeptics." - Raymond Brown

Thor
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Re: Obama denies Islamic State caused by Islam

Post by Thor » Sat Sep 06, 2014 4:34 am

Peter Kirby wrote: "To speak for" and to speak about are not the same thing.

The former implies authority and particularly the right to invent on behalf of - like someone saying that Christians should believe that Jesus will come back to earth in the year 2016.

The latter implies nothing more than a recognition of the authorities of the past, like someone saying that Christians historically believe in a Jesus that was executed by Pilate.
I know. I only referred to Obama as no representative or authority regarding Islam and connection to ISIS. To my knowledge he is the president of USA, not some religious figurehead.

bskeptic
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Re: Obama denies Islamic State caused by Islam

Post by bskeptic » Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:03 am

Something I came across regarding the left and Islamic terror...


Quote:


"It must be incredibly frustrating as an Islamic terrorist not to have your views and motives taken seriously by the societies you terrorize, even after you have explicitly and repeatedly stated them. Even worse, those on the regressive left, in their endless capacity for masochism and self-loathing, have attempted to shift blame inwardly on themselves, denying the terrorists even the satisfaction of claiming responsibility.

It's like a bad Monty Python sketch:

"We did this because our holy texts exhort us to do it."

"No you didn't."

"Wait, what? Yes we did..."

"No, this has nothing to do with religion. You guys are just using religion as a front for social and geopolitical reasons."

"WHAT!? Did you even read our official statement? We give explicit Quranic justification. This is jihad, a holy crusade against pagans, blasphemers, and disbelievers."

"No, this is definitely not a Muslim thing. You guys are not true Muslims, and you defame a great religion by saying so."

"Huh!? Who are you to tell us we're not true Muslims!? Islam is literally at the core of everything we do, and we have implemented the truest most literal and honest interpretation of its founding texts. It is our very reason for being."

"Nope. We created you. We installed a social and economic system that alienates and disenfranchises you, and that's why you did this. We're sorry."

"What? Why are you apologizing? We just slaughtered you mercilessly in the streets. We targeted unwitting civilians - disenfranchisement doesn't even enter into it!"

"Listen, it's our fault. We don't blame you for feeling unwelcome and lashing out."

"Seriously, stop taking credit for this! We worked really hard to pull this off, and we're not going to let you take it away from us."

"No, we nourished your extremism. We accept full blame."

"OMG, how many people do we have to kill around here to finally get our message across?""


https://www.facebook.com/faisalsalmutar ... 9506085781

Chris
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Re: Obama denies Islamic State caused by Islam

Post by Chris » Fri Jan 01, 2016 7:00 pm

President Obama: 'ISIL is not Islamic'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwp8qKvE-0g


:facepalm:

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