Eastern Dialecticism in the Bible?

Discussion about Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism, Taoism, etc.
Post Reply
bbyrd009
Posts: 162
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:52 am

Eastern Dialecticism in the Bible?

Post by bbyrd009 » Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:27 am

It is important to understand that as a Westerner, your thought processes are vastly different from those who have been raised to reason dialectically, as the Talmud authors were: (which should not be taken as an endorsement of Talmud)
...Dialectical reasoning is actually opposed to formal logic in many ways.

Western Logic Versus Eastern Dialecticism
Aristotle placed at the foundations of logical thought the following three propositions.
1. Identity: A = A. Whatever is, is. A is itself and not some other thing.
2. Noncontradiction: A and not A can't both be the case. Nothing can both be and not be. A proposition and its opposite can't both be true.
3. Excluded middle: Everything must either be or not be. A or not A can be true but not something in between.

Modern Westerners accept these propositions (but Easterners do not)...
...three principles underlie Eastern dialecticism. Notice I didn't say "propositions..." the term "proposition" has much too formal a ring for what is a generalized stance toward the world rather than a set of ironclad rules.

1. Principle of change:
Reality is a process of change.
What is currently true will shortly be false.
2. Principle of contradiction:
Contradiction is the dynamic underlying change.
Because change is constant, contradiction is constant.
3. Principle of relationships (or holism):
The whole is more than the sum of its parts.
Parts are meaningful only in relation to the whole...

These principles are intimately linked...
The principles also imply another important tenet of Eastern thought, which is the insistence on finding the "middle way" between extreme propositions...
...and Talmudic scholars developed it over the next two millennia and more.

"Mindware" Richard E. Nisbett, pp. 224-5
which seemed to blend quite well with hidden from the wise, as well as explain the ambiguous nature of many Bible Scriptures that would seem to oppose each other, God is our judge, God is not our judge, provide for your family, don't work for food, hate your family, etc.

Do (literal) little children reason from the Eastern Dialectic, as opposed to the Hegelian (or "satan's") Dialectic (an implied winner and loser in every transaction) that Logic demands? Some links that might be helpful,
https://www.google.com/search?ei=D6JZXL ... c7fE8h3n_c
https://www.biblebelievers.org.au/bb970219.htm
https://learning.hccs.edu/faculty/joann ... tern-style
https://www.google.com/search?q=...and+ ... 88&bih=566
https://www.google.com/search?q=eastern ... taoism.pdf

6However, we do speak a wisdom among the mature, but not a wisdom of this age, or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing.
7On the contrary, we speak God’s hidden wisdom in a •mystery...
13We also speak these things, not in words taught by human wisdom...

1. Analytic thinkers are more subject to nine-ending pricing than holistic thinkers.

“Analytic thinkers tend to view the nine-ending price as lower because of the difference in the left-most digit. In contrast, holistic thinkers tend to view all price digits as a whole and are less subject to the nine-ending price effect,” Tu said. “We identified that when individuals are more inclined to holistic thinking (versus analytic thinking), the effectiveness of a nine-ending pricing tactic is pretty weak.”
https://neurosciencenews.com/psychology ... ence-9629/

User avatar
arnoldo
Posts: 816
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2013 6:10 pm
Location: Latin America

Re: Eastern Dialecticism in the Bible?

Post by arnoldo » Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:37 pm

This made me think of Mortimer J Adler's book "TRUTH IN RELIGION;THE PLURALITY OF RELIGIONS AND THE UNITY OF TRUTH "
https://books.google.com/books?id=gzW3- ... rn&f=false

bbyrd009
Posts: 162
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:52 am

Re: Eastern Dialecticism in the Bible?

Post by bbyrd009 » Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:29 am

arnoldo wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:37 pm
This made me think of Mortimer J Adler's book "TRUTH IN RELIGION;THE PLURALITY OF RELIGIONS AND THE UNITY OF TRUTH "
https://books.google.com/books?id=gzW3- ... rn&f=false
do you recall any keywords in his treatment there? ty

User avatar
arnoldo
Posts: 816
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2013 6:10 pm
Location: Latin America

Re: Eastern Dialecticism in the Bible?

Post by arnoldo » Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:38 pm

Sure, the following reminded me of the OP.

In Western logic, the laws governing the opposition of incompatible propositions are unquestioned. They are self-evident because the opposite is unthinkable. Two propositions that are contrary to each other cannot both be true though both can be false. The pursuit of truth in mathematics, science and philosophy is governed by freedom from contradictions. Now that mathematics and science have become transcultural, one might suppose that the logic of incompatible propositions would also have become transcultural. But that is not the case. Some, if not all, of the Far Eastern cultures don’t not accept this rule of thought, with respect to incompatibles, nor do they accept the underlying view of reality that it presupposes. It is not self-evidently true for them.

On the contrary, they hold the very opposite to be true, that the guiding rule of thought should drive the mind to embrace contradiction because contradiction in their view lie at the very heart of reality. It would seem that we cannot apply the Western logic of truth to the religions prevalent in Far Eastern cultures where that logic has no authority.


bbyrd009
Posts: 162
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:52 am

Re: Eastern Dialecticism in the Bible?

Post by bbyrd009 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:08 am

arnoldo wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:38 pm
Sure, the following reminded me of the OP.

In Western logic, the laws governing the opposition of incompatible propositions are unquestioned. They are self-evident because the opposite is unthinkable. Two propositions that are contrary to each other cannot both be true though both can be false. The pursuit of truth in mathematics, science and philosophy is governed by freedom from contradictions. Now that mathematics and science have become transcultural, one might suppose that the logic of incompatible propositions would also have become transcultural. But that is not the case. Some, if not all, of the Far Eastern cultures don’t not accept this rule of thought, with respect to incompatibles, nor do they accept the underlying view of reality that it presupposes. It is not self-evidently true for them.

On the contrary, they hold the very opposite to be true, that the guiding rule of thought should drive the mind to embrace contradiction because contradiction in their view lie at the very heart of reality. It would seem that we cannot apply the Western logic of truth to the religions prevalent in Far Eastern cultures where that logic has no authority.

awesome, ty. Guess i better look him up!


lightning flashes from East to West
Euphrates dried up to make way for the kings of the East
,

etc

theeternaliam
Posts: 58
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:33 am

Re: Eastern Dialecticism in the Bible?

Post by theeternaliam » Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:29 am

This is a good post, in my opinion because it kinda explains some of the apparent contradictions in scripture. I believe all of what Jesus speaks is truth, I suspect that the bible is true even if there seems to be contradictions. And its not simply because of blind faith either. I think there are layers of meanings, perceptual differences of different writers and I also think that because of differences in personalities and tribes and nations that the truth might have to appear as different things to different people and so seem contradictory to more materialistic logical types. For example, to those raised from a Jewish perspective Jesus Christ is the waited for messiah. To those raised in a Greek philosophical environment Jesus Christ is the Logos, Son of God. All things to all men. Glory be to the Most High God who loves all peoples of all nations.

I believe Jesus Christ is even the fulfillment of other religions. For example, He may be the prophesied Maitreya Buddha (Maitreya sounds to my ears similar to messiah). The Hopi have a God they call Massa'u who taught them to live a simple humble life, warned them of "antichrist" types(not that term of course) who would try to tempt them away from his commandments and also prophesied to return at the end of the age. Jesus Christ is also a kinda shaman for those from that perspective. A psychopomp for those inclined to the Mysteries. A revolutionary hero for political types. And much much more. He is the all in the All and from Him all comes forth.

A lot of fundamentalist types, in their prejudice, seem to think Jesus Christ is only the fulfillment of Jewish prophecy. If they would open their minds a little they could evangelize a lot better to the lost sheep of this generation from all the different nations. But by their fruits you shall know them, and they seem to me to produce the fruits of the Pharisees. By "they" I mean certain types of religious often called fundamentalist. And I don't mean to condemn "them" so much as expose particular faults we, including me, may fall into, which is often a fruit of pride.

He said we should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees.

I pray the Heavenly Father blesses those who are willing to receive His Holy Spirit and so overcome the spirit of pride and false religion. In the name of Jesus Christ I pray Amen.

Post Reply