Revelation 5: 10 (RSV):
[10] and hast made them a kingdom and priests to our God,
and they shall reign on earth."
Revelation 5: 10 (RSV):
Good catch, Charles.Revelation 5: 10 (RSV):
[10] and hast made them a kingdom and priests to our God,
and they shall reign on earth."
As James says in 2:14, "What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them?"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection and went into the holy city and appeared to many people.
I believe Ben accurately describes the essence of the kingdom of God/kingdom of heaven concept. It is a revolutionary concept that indicates the result of the expulsion of the Romans: a free Israel ruled by God himself, who needs a human king, the messiah, as his substitute. The religious and moral characteristics of this messiah are secondary to the political and military goal of the war against the Romans. After the temporary rule of the Assyrians and other empires of the past, and Rome in the then period, the subsequent 'kingdom of God' period of Jewish world dominion would be everlasting. The whole idea is perfectly summarized in Revelation 11:15:Ben C. Smith wrote: ↑Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:41 pm
I think that Torah observance is second tier to the real idea behind the kingdom of God/heaven, which is simply that God, as the sovereign of Israel, must rule in order for justice to finally prevail. Israel/Judah languishing under the Assyrians, the Babylonians, the Medes, the Persians, the Greeks, and the Romans just will not cut it; God has to reign supreme, and not through one of those foreign powers. No, God must rule on his own merits; Israel must be a free country, possibly even the seat of its own empire; and only approved surrogates must rule over Israel in God's name (Aaronid priests and a Davidic king/messiah are the main candidates for the job).
We are more than halfway to "British Israelism" here but the point is important:Ben C. Smith wrote: ↑Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:41 pmonly approved surrogates must rule over Israel in God's name (Aaronid priests and a Davidic king/messiah are the main candidates for the job).
Add to that:FransJVermeiren wrote: ↑Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:23 amI believe Ben accurately describes the essence of the kingdom of God/kingdom of heaven concept. It is a revolutionary concept that indicates the result of the expulsion of the Romans: a free Israel ruled by God himself, who needs a human king, the messiah, as his substitute. The religious and moral characteristics of this messiah are secondary to the political and military goal of the war against the Romans. After the temporary rule of the Assyrians and other empires of the past, and Rome in the then period, the subsequent 'kingdom of God' period of Jewish world dominion would be everlasting. The whole idea is perfectly summarized in Revelation 11:15:
Then the seventh angel blew the trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign for ever and ever."
That is the difference. In Ecclesiastes, we find that the dead know nothing. All we have is the temporary life on this earth. The Roman Rule demands obedience to Caesar. The Platonists demand an eternal soul.Roman rule (kingdom of the world) and Jewish theocratic rule (the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ) are diametrically opposed.The latter will definitively replace the former.
"We" are actually nowhere near British Israelism. "You" may be able to see it from your vantage point, but "I" am not even in the same galaxy.Charles Wilson wrote: ↑Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:34 pmWe are more than halfway to "British Israelism" here but the point is important....
I'm on board with what you and Ben have said about the Kingdom of Heaven, but now I'm wondering about the exact nature of it. Yes, I see it as being on earth (with an angelic Jesus, as per Hegesippus and other Jewish Christians), and dead people will come back to life and (if they were Torah-observant during their lives) live forever, but was the nature of the earth and the living people and the resurrected dead people supposed to change? Is it like Paul says in 1 Cor. 15:50-54?The latter will definitively replace the former.
He does say earlier in 15:11 regarding Jewish Christians and Jesus' resurrection, "Whether, then, it is I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed."I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”
And when they were asked concerning Christ and his kingdom, of what sort it was and where and when it was to appear, they answered that it was not a temporal nor an earthly kingdom, but a heavenly and angelic one, which would appear at the end of the world, when he should come in glory to judge the quick and the dead, and to give unto every one according to his works.
Upon hearing this, Domitian did not pass judgment against them, but, despising them as of no account, he let them go, and by a decree put a stop to the persecution of the Church.
Glad you got the joke. "God said it, I believe, that settles it" saith the bumper sticker. That only leaves:Ben C. Smith wrote: ↑Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:16 pm"We" are actually nowhere near British Israelism. "You" may be able to see it from your vantage point, but "I" am not even in the same galaxy.Charles Wilson wrote: ↑Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:34 pmWe are more than halfway to "British Israelism" here but the point is important....
Maybe we should limit the kingdom of God/heaven discussion to the history-based writings of the New Testament, the gospels and Revelation in particular.John2 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:32 pm Frans wrote:
I'm on board with what you and Ben have said about the Kingdom of Heaven, but now I'm wondering about the exact nature of it. Yes, I see it as being on earth (with an angelic Jesus, as per Hegesippus and other Jewish Christians), and dead people will come back to life and (if they were Torah-observant during their lives) live forever, but was the nature of the earth and the living people and the resurrected dead people supposed to change? Is it like Paul says in 1 Cor. 15:50-54?The latter will definitively replace the former.