The Ascension to celestial Jerusalem is euhemerized as ascent to Jerusalem of Judea

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
Giuseppe
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Re: The Ascension to celestial Jerusalem is euhemerized as ascent to Jerusalem of Judea

Post by Giuseppe » Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:07 am

The Nassene Hymn, also, says us that what Jesus had to give in the his descent to lower heavens, was the way to escape from it: precisely, “Mysteries”, i.e. divine keys to escape the archons during the ascending.


Wherefore, send me, O Father!
Seals in my hands, I will descend;
Through Æons universal will I make a Path;
Through Mysteries all I'll open up a Way!
And Forms of Gods will I display;
The secrets of the Holy Path I will hand on,
And call them Gnosis.

(Hippolytus, Haer. 5.10,2)

The prison in need of keys to escape can only be the Sheol.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

Giuseppe
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Re: The Ascension to celestial Jerusalem is euhemerized as ascent to Jerusalem of Judea

Post by Giuseppe » Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:22 pm

The Odes of Solomon 24 identify the baptism of Jesus with the descending of Jesus in the Sheol (to give gnosis):
The dove fluttered over the head of our Lord Messiah, because He was her head.
And she sang over Him, and her voice was heard.
Then the inhabitants were afraid, and the foreigners were disturbed.
The bird began to fly, and every creeping thing died in its hole.
And the chasms were opened and closed; and they were seeking the Lord as those who are about to give birth.
But He was not given to them for nourishment, because He did not belong to them.
But the chasms were submerged in the seal of the Lord, and they perished in the thought with which they had remained from the beginning.
For they were in labor from the beginning, and the end of their travail was life.
And all of them who were lacking perished, because they were not able to express the word so that they might remain.
And the Lord destroyed the devices, of all those who had not the truth with them.
For they were lacking in wisdom, they who exalted themselves in their mind.
So they were rejected, because the truth was not with them.
For the Lord revealed His way, and spread widely His grace.
And those who understood it knew His holiness.
Hallelujah.

This Ode is direct evidence of the original meaning of baptism of Christ: descending in the Sheol to save the souls of the righteous.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

Giuseppe
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Re: The Ascension to celestial Jerusalem is euhemerized as ascent to Jerusalem of Judea

Post by Giuseppe » Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:13 am

So Richard Carrier about the Ascension of Isaiah:

So again Doherty is right: Jesus was to descend to the *firmament*, then Sheol, *not* earth. Earth is never mentioned here (the phrase [that world] refers to Sheol, or at most the whole sphere below the moon, not earth specifically—see below). One might say that "technically" Jesus had to pass earth to get to Sheol, but that does not mean he stopped on earth, and it is certainly not said here that he did or was even supposed to; he is told to go to the firmament and then Sheol. Period. Inanna descends from heaven to the underworld, skipping earth right by. She is incarnated in hell, killed, crucified, raised from the dead (in hell) with the water and food of life after three days, then ascends back to heaven, again skipping earth. This is pretty standard stuff in ancient cosmology and theology.

(Earl Doherty, Jesus Puzzle, p. 480, my bold)

The differences between Jesus and Inanna, for me, are the following ones:

JesusInanna
descends to the gate of Sheol (skipping earth).descends to Sheol (skipping earth).
is crucified before the gate of Sheolis crucified in Sheol
visits the Sheol, as revealeris prisoner in the Sheol
ascends to earth, as revealerascends to heaven (skipping earth).
ascends to heaven

Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

Giuseppe
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Re: The Ascension to celestial Jerusalem is euhemerized as ascent to Jerusalem of Judea

Post by Giuseppe » Tue Jul 23, 2019 8:13 am

I should open again this thread since I have found another textual evidence of the fact that the crucifixion in Jerusalem allegorizes the ascension to heaven from Sheol (and not the original mythical cosmic crucifixion, that happened before the entry in Sheol):

Twice the Johannine Jesus speaks of “being lifted up,” presumably on the cross. “As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life” (John 3:14-15). “‘I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself.’ He said this to specify the mode of his death” (John 12:32-33). Interestingly, without the narrator’s comment, we might very well understand the “lifting up from earth” to refer to the ascension (John 6:62; 20:17), as in a larger sense it does seem to do, as if the cross is a stairway to heaven, the means or the beginning of the ascension (John 17:1-5, where the impending arrest is said to mark Jesus’ return to his Father’s side in heavenly glory).

(my bold)
https://www.robertmprice.mindvendor.com ... _cross.htm


Note that even the minimal historical Jesus accepted now by Roger Parvus is captured by the analogue mythical scenario described in this thread:

Parvus's wordsa de-euhemerizing (=mythical) reading of the Parvus' words
In other words, I think the pocket gospel may actually give us an earlier and more accurate look than the canonical gospels at what a historical Jesus could have been like. He was not a teacher or even a leader of any kind.simply, he limited himself to descend to lower heavens
If he went up to Jerusalem with some fellow believers in an imminent Kingdom of God—perhaps a group of John the Baptist’s followers—he was not the leader of the group.he had to ascend again to celestial Jerusalem with the his chosen «brothers» (the only people to whom he revealed himself, possibly in the third heaven,as Isaiah and the same Paul), during the his descending through the lower heavens.
Once in Jerusalem he may have done or said something that got him pulled out from the others and crucified.To overcome the guard of the demons (in order to ascend to celestial Jerusalem), he had to pay a tribute: the his death on the celestial cross.
That would have been the end of the story. Except that another member of the group had a vision of him resurrected, and interpreted it as meaning that the Kingdom of God was closer than ever. Jesus thereby began to take on an importance all out of proportion with his real status as a nobody.Visions of the Risen Christ. Paul could have seen the Son even before the his crucifixion, when he descended through the Third Heaven (just as Isaiah saw, as in a movie, the voyages of the Son)
The accretions began. And the excuses for why no one had taken much notice of him before.
the excuse was the his preaching in «Galilee»: i.e. he had shown himself only during the his descending through the heavens.

Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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