Did Jesus Die in Outer Space?

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
outhouse
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Re: Did Jesus Die in Outer Space?

Post by outhouse »

cienfuegos wrote:
So you are acknowledging that the high priest in heaven that I referred to is Jesus?
Yes, it is where they though dead peoples soul went.

You know people die and go to heaven.

We a re dealing with a dead person crucified by earthly Romans. Maybe you will try and vie for a heavenly Pilate who was really alive on earth too?
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cienfuegos
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Re: Did Jesus Die in Outer Space?

Post by cienfuegos »

outhouse wrote:
cienfuegos wrote:
So you are acknowledging that the high priest in heaven that I referred to is Jesus?
Yes, it is where they though dead peoples soul went.

You know people die and go to heaven.

We a re dealing with a dead person crucified by earthly Romans. Maybe you will try and vie for a heavenly Pilate who was really alive on earth too?
Just for the record, even though I know it will have little impact on you, I responded to this:

outhouse wrote:
cienfuegos wrote: Jesus is the high priest in heaven
.


Laughable.

It takes leaps of imagination to pervert text so poorly.
It seems you are in agreement with this laughable statement, after all. Change of heart? Were you mistaken? That was a quick turnaround.
Clive
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Re: Did Jesus Die in Outer Space?

Post by Clive »

Laughable.

It takes leaps of imagination to pervert text so poorly.
Is it? Or do we have such huge assumptions here we miss the point, like thinking it is the text that is being misinterpreted when maybe it is our assumptions that are the problem? Like "Abrahamic religions"

Are people missing a very important point here?

How would any Jew possibly conceive of a high priest coming from the tribe of Judah?

So who invented the idea of Jesus Christ being a high priest, atoning for sins?

Is this not a very strong argument that Christianity was not originally Jewish at all, but has just stolen ideas, it's God and concepts?

That it is actually a cuckoo?
"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
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John T
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Re: Did Jesus Die in Outer Space?

Post by John T »

cienfuegos wrote:
John T wrote:




After watching hours of Carrier debates/lectures as well as reading parts of his blog and then reading Ehrman's book, "Did Jesus Exist?" it is abundantly clear that mythicists are not interested in history but promoting their own religious agenda.
Can you provide evidence to support your observation as expressed above? Some citation, for example?

See my my post:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1010#p21280

Sincerely,
John T
"It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into."...Jonathan Swift
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cienfuegos
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Re: Did Jesus Die in Outer Space?

Post by cienfuegos »

John T wrote:
cienfuegos wrote:
John T wrote:




After watching hours of Carrier debates/lectures as well as reading parts of his blog and then reading Ehrman's book, "Did Jesus Exist?" it is abundantly clear that mythicists are not interested in history but promoting their own religious agenda.
Can you provide evidence to support your observation as expressed above? Some citation, for example?

See my my post:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1010#p21280

Sincerely,
John T
Can you provide quotes and times that support your claim that "mythicists are not interested in history but promoting their own religious agenda?"
Clive
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Re: Did Jesus Die in Outer Space?

Post by Clive »

Hebrews 2:14 Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil— 15 and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death. 16 For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham’s descendants.

17
For this reason he had to be made like them,
[k]

fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people. 18 Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.
"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
Clive
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Re: Did Jesus Die in Outer Space?

Post by Clive »

Why does it seem so difficult to take off the preconceived notions and assumptions about what something says and actually read what is there?

And then ask what are all these similar statements and theological assertions about?

Born of a woman, virgin birth, baptism, death and resurrection, ascension.

Isn't it obvious something strange is going on? Do people resurrect regularly? Do we eat their body and blood every Sunday?
"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
Clive
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Re: Did Jesus Die in Outer Space?

Post by Clive »

The ship of Theseus, also known as Theseus' paradox, is a thought experiment that raises the question of whether an object which has had all its components replaced remains fundamentally the same object. The paradox is most notably recorded by Plutarch in Life of Theseus from the late 1st century. Plutarch asked whether a ship which was restored by replacing each and every one of its wooden parts remained the same ship.

The paradox had been discussed by more ancient philosophers such as Heraclitus, Socrates, and Plato prior to Plutarch's writings; and more recently by Thomas Hobbes and John Locke. There are several variants, notably "grandfather's axe". This thought experiment is "a model for the philosophers"; some say, "it remained the same," some saying, "it did not remain the same".[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus

Doesn't Jesus being "like" humans therefore become another example of Theseus' Paradox?
"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
Clive
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Re: Did Jesus Die in Outer Space?

Post by Clive »

In the popular BBC sitcom Only Fools and Horses, Trigger (a roadsweeper) declares he has won an award for keeping the same broom for 20 years — "17 new heads and 14 new handles".[12] This has become known as the "Trigger's Broom" paradox
"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
Clive
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Re: Did Jesus Die in Outer Space?

Post by Clive »

Why are there so many variants like docetism and gnosticism? Why the theological effort to impose a solution?

Maybe there was a problem to solve to begin with?
"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
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