London Museum has a map of the Roman Empire under Hadrian, that includes a province "Asia". This is Western Turkey. Damascus is nowhere near Asia.
What does this do to Biblical references and assumptions about where certain people went?
Asia
Re: Asia
Not sure where you want to go with this? I would consider what "Asia" meant at that time common knowledge. I learned that at school. The province is not the only use of the word though. In it's earliest documented use it could also mean Turkey and the Persian Empire.
The only discussion that I recall considering Damascus at that time is whether it was subsumed under the "Arabia" moniker or not.
The only discussion that I recall considering Damascus at that time is whether it was subsumed under the "Arabia" moniker or not.
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Re: Asia
A "cobbler of fables" [Augustine]; "Leucius is the disciple of the devil" [Decretum Gelasianum]; and his books "should be utterly swept away and burned" [Pope Leo I]; they are the "source and mother of all heresy" [Photius]
Re: Asia
As I noted the Herodian map was not the same as above - Asia was only Western Turkey, with separate subdivisions including Bythnia, and Galatia.
Hispania had Lusitania. Germania was two.
I think this is important because translators need to attempt to specify where someone a writer or editor was talking about, not assumptions, and conversely this will enable dating.
Hispania had Lusitania. Germania was two.
I think this is important because translators need to attempt to specify where someone a writer or editor was talking about, not assumptions, and conversely this will enable dating.
Last edited by Clive on Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
Re: Asia
If the original text doesn't specify, how do you want to distinguish between the name of the Roman province and the more general use the word had at least from Herodot's time until today? And how is this supposed to help with dating?Clive wrote:I think this is important because translators need to attempt to specify where someone a writer or editor was talking about, not assumptions, and conversely this will enable dating.
I just scanned my old schoolbook from highschool:
However, the Greek use was wider, and you have to refer to the context to see what was meant.
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Re: Asia
Clive wrote:I think this is important because translators need to attempt to specify where someone a writer or editor was talking about, not assumptions, and conversely this will enable dating.
The Presbyter in Asia who loved Paul so much he just had to author the Acts of Paul (and Thecla)
- As for those (women) who appeal to the falsely written Acts of Paul in order to defend the right of women to teach and to baptize,
let them know that the presbyter in Asia who produced this document, as if he could add something of his own to the prestige of Paul,
was removed from his office after he had been convicted and had confessed that he had done it out of love for Paul.
Tertullian, 12th century Codex Trecensis
Be well,
LC
A "cobbler of fables" [Augustine]; "Leucius is the disciple of the devil" [Decretum Gelasianum]; and his books "should be utterly swept away and burned" [Pope Leo I]; they are the "source and mother of all heresy" [Photius]
Re: Asia
Nice, Clive, very informative thread. Many thanks to Ulan and Leucius Charinus for maps, and an interesting illustration of the attempt to define what ancient Greeks meant by the term, “Asia”.
Thanks to Roger Pearse, for his excellent web site: tertullian.org
http://www.tertullian.org/articles/evan ... _trans.htm
Codex Trecensis Tertullian's Homily on Baptism
translation of Ernest Evans 1964
quod si quae Acta Pauli, quae perperam scripta sunt,
exemplum Theclae ad licentiam mulierum docendi tinguendique
defendant, sciant in Asia presbyterum qui eam scripturam
construxit, quasi titulo Pauli de suo cumulans, convictum atque
confessum id se amore Pauli fecisse loco decessisse. quam enim
fidei proximum videtur ut is docendi et tinguendi daret feminae
potestatem qui ne discere quidem constanter mulieri permisit?
Taceant, inquit, et domi viros suos consulant.
But if certain Acts of Paul, which are falsely so named,
claim the example of Thecla for allowing women to teach and
to baptize, let men know that in Asia the presbyter who com-
piled that document, thinking to add of his own to Paul's
reputation, was found out, and though he professed he had
done it for love of Paul, was deposed from his position. How
could we believe that Paul should give a female power to teach
and to baptize, when he did not allow a woman even to learn by
her own right? Let them keep silence, he says, and ask their husbands
at home.
Thanks to Roger Pearse, for his excellent web site: tertullian.org
http://www.tertullian.org/articles/evan ... _trans.htm
Codex Trecensis Tertullian's Homily on Baptism
translation of Ernest Evans 1964
quod si quae Acta Pauli, quae perperam scripta sunt,
exemplum Theclae ad licentiam mulierum docendi tinguendique
defendant, sciant in Asia presbyterum qui eam scripturam
construxit, quasi titulo Pauli de suo cumulans, convictum atque
confessum id se amore Pauli fecisse loco decessisse. quam enim
fidei proximum videtur ut is docendi et tinguendi daret feminae
potestatem qui ne discere quidem constanter mulieri permisit?
Taceant, inquit, et domi viros suos consulant.
But if certain Acts of Paul, which are falsely so named,
claim the example of Thecla for allowing women to teach and
to baptize, let men know that in Asia the presbyter who com-
piled that document, thinking to add of his own to Paul's
reputation, was found out, and though he professed he had
done it for love of Paul, was deposed from his position. How
could we believe that Paul should give a female power to teach
and to baptize, when he did not allow a woman even to learn by
her own right? Let them keep silence, he says, and ask their husbands
at home.