Hi Steve43,
I am not desperate about the date of Acts. I have no doubt that it was written around the year 200 CE when it is first mentioned in works by Irenaeus and Tertullian. It is not mentioned in dozens of works written earlier such as Celsus and Justin Martyr (circa 180). If written earlier, we would expect to find citations in earlier works.
Paul's alleged trip to Rome is launched by a Bad Wish motif which is standard in Mythology and folk tales. This is when a wish is granted, but it turns out to have an opposite effect than intended. King Midas is probably the most famous. He gets his wish that everything he touches turns to gold only to find that the food he touches also changes to gold. King Oedipus gets his wish to discover what is causing the plague in Thebes. It turns out, to his dismay, that he is the cause. We also find the bad wish motif in the John the Baptist story, where the Tetrach Herod grants Herodias or her daughter Salome a birthday wish and she asks for the head of John the Baptist. This wish motif seems to be based on a story in Josephus where Herodias demands that her Husband Herod go to the Emperor Claudius in Rome and ask for an enlargement of his empire to match that of his brother Antipater. Instead Claudius takes away his lands and send him and Herodias into exile.
In this case, Paul gets his wish to be sent to Rome to be judged, but his wish backfires as Festus says he would have found him innocent, only he appealed to Caesar to go to Rome to be judged, so he has to send him to Rome. Obviously, Festus was under no obligation to send a man he considered innocent to Rome just because he had asked for it. In fact, given the expense of having an army captain guard a prisoner all the way to Rome, it is quite hilarious and ridiculous.
What I am desperate to know is if the text of Josephus' "Life" was altered, as so many other text were, like the TF, the line about James the brother of the Lord, and the John the Baptist material.
Ordinarily, I would simply say that the author of Acts copied from Josephus the idea of Jewish priests being sent to Rome to be tried and the dramatic shipwreck episode. However, the dating is highly problematic. Josephus says he was born in the first year of Gaius Caesar (AKA Caligula), which was March 18, 37 - March 17, 38. he says he went in his 26th year to Rome. This would be March 18, 62 to March 17, 63. Then he says:
Felix was procurator of Judea there were certain priests of my acquaintance, and very excellent persons they were, whom on a small and trifling occasion he had put into bonds and sent to Rome to plead their cause before Caesar. These I was desirous to procure deliverance for, and that especially because I was informed that they were not unmindful of piety towards God, even under their afflictions, but supported themselves with figs and nuts. (4) Accordingly I came to Rome, though it were through a great number of hazards by sea; for as our ship was drowned in the Adriatic Sea, we that were in it, being about six hundred in number, (5) swam for our lives all the night; when, upon the first appearance of the day, and upon our sight of a ship of Cyrene
Because of the date on the Festus coin (year 5 of Nero), we can establish June of 59 as probably the latest date of Festus coming to Caesarea, although it is possibly more likely he came up to a year earlier in 58. Since Felix sent Josephus' friends, they must have been sent sometime before June 59, again more likely before June 58.
Our problem is that in the next paragraph after describing his trip to Rome, he says:
4. And now I perceived innovations were already begun, and that there were a great many very much elevated in hopes of a revolt from the Romans. I therefore endeavored to put a stop to these tumultuous persons, and persuaded them to change their minds;...5. I was then afraid, lest, by inculcating these things so often, I should incur their hatred and their suspicions, as if I were of our enemies' party, and should run into the danger of being seized by them, and slain; since they were already possessed of Antonia, which was the citadel; so I retired into the inner court of the temple. Yet did I go out of the temple again, after Manahem and the principal of the band of robbers were put to death, when I abode among the high priests and the chief of the Pharisees. [/qc
These events took place in 67.
Thus we have Josephus' friends being sent to Rome for judgment on minor charges in 58 or 59. We have Josephus saying, he went to Rome in 62 or early 63. He seems to have returned from Rome in 67 after the outbreak of the war. It is hard to believe that he would wait 3-5 years to help his friends win a trial on "a small and trifling occasion". It is hard to believe he would be in Rome 3-5 more years helping his friends win a trial on "a small and trifling occasion". The fact that his ship was wrecked and he swam for his life just as Paul did, suggests to me that this passage might have been interpolated into Josephus to back up the wild and fantastic tale that Acts tells.
I thank you again for reminding me about this interesting passage from Josephus that I had forgotten about.
Warmly,
Jay Raskin
steve43 wrote:Like when I caught you in an error about Herod Philip and Herodias, confronted with the stark reality of Josephus being in Rome in A.D. 62-63 at the same time as Paul and the author of Luke/Acts, presumably Luke of Macedon, you retreat into a world of meaningless off-target "scholarship" and a world of minutia.
Josephus in Rome throws a monkey wrench into the late gospel theory.
Specifically on what you posted, as tangential as it is, I am impressed that you know Greek. All your citations do not imporess me, however, and the time interval between Paul's first "trial" with the Festus and chief priests is still uncertain.
But that was peripheral anyway. When did Festus arrive on the scene in Judea? WSe simply don't know. Agrippa I was appointed to his kingdom by Cauis in A. D. 41 and didn't actually go there for a year. Lamnia was the President of Asia, but record indicate that he never even went to Antioch- preferring to stay in Rome and collect his pay.
Felix was sent to trial for crimes, which was very contentious. Throw into the mix that Felix was the brother of the Treasurer of Empire and was a real mess.
But whether Paul and Luke arrived in Rome in A.D. 60, or 61, or 62 it remains that ACts ends with Paul staying in Rome for at least two more years.
Moving on the to lesser sources of Eusebius and the church fathers, it is reported that Paul and Peter got caught up in the Neronian persecutions.
That would mean that Paul and Luke were most likely in Rome for the entire duration of Josephus' very high-profile visit.
As Luke admits to using many sources for his gospel, it is far more likely this is where he obtained the Jesus in the Temple story in error, rather than postulating a convoluted theory that a vast conspiracy created ACTS after Josephus had completed his writings.
BTW, arguing that Rome wouldn't keep Priest imprisoned for so long, and basing it on events a quarter century earlier, is just plain silly and smacks of desperation.
You're not desperate, are you?
Are you afraid that Acts was actually written in the mid-sixties A.D.? Do you feel threatened, Philospopher Jay?
