Parallels Between Jesus and the Egyptian God, "Shu"

[MattMorales]

I lean towards an HJ, as I've demonstrated in a few threads thus far, but just to show I'm game for some mythical explanations, here's something that's been on my mind for a while. It's not a very developed hypothesis; just some observations gleaned from a few websites. Perhaps the intelligent folk here can verify some of the accuracy of these claims and steer me in the right direction as to whether or not the parallels I'm seeing are legit.

Shu - First off the name. Does this work if we are comparing the Hebrew to the Egptian? One thinks of the shortened form, "Yeshu," found in some Jewish texts. "Shu" is thought to mean "dry", "parched," or "withered," but it is also suggested that the name may mean "He Who Rises Up." Shu was thought to be the "breath of life" for all creation.

Shu is the Egyptian god of light, wind, (cool, dry) air, and the atmosphere. Also of "emptiness." He separates the heavens from the earth, which are personified as his children, Nut and Geb. Thus, he is a figure remeniscent of Atlas and is often depicted bearing the load of the heavens on his arms and shoulders, in a pose which evokes comparisons to imagery of the crucified Jesus. As the wind, he was also relied on by sailors to guide them to safety.



As the son of the sun, Atum (and Ra), the creator god, Shu is born of this deity's breath or via masturbation, along with his sister Tefnut, who is the godess of moisture. When Akhenaten experimented with monotheism, Shu still maintained a prominant position, as the living Pharoah was believed to embody him.
Shu aided the souls of the dead in their ascent to heaven, "The Land of Light," by providing a giant ladder. He was also the judge of the dead in the Halls of Ma'at and oversaw the punishment of the wicked.

His main sanctuary was at "El Yahudiya" aka The Mound of the Jews situated in Leontopolis, coincidentally where Onias the IV (or 3rd?) established a replica of the Jewish temple. He was worshipped here in the form of a lion, as he represented the sun's light and was also the protector of the sun and the one who resurrected Ra each morning, holding power over snakes, who represented the demon Apep. One text connects him to the cat god, Basti and his sister Tefnut to the cat goddess of ointment and sexuality, Bast.

I might go on drawing some specific parallels, in particular to Johanine Christianity and Philonic concepts, but perhaps it would be more useful to simply ask if anyone else is seeing any parallels here. I need yet to get to an actual a library to verify some of these facts, but here are the websites I've drawn this information from. Constructive criticism is welcome, but please keep it respectful.

http://www.ancientegyptonline.co.uk/shu.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shu_(Egyptian_deity)
http://www.thekeep.org/~kunoichi/kunoic ... Ge3OPnF_Gh

[outhouse]

Does this work if we are comparing the Hebrew to the Egptian? On thinks of the shortened form, "Yeshu" found in some Jewish texts. "Shu"

Aramaic was Isho
Hebrew was Yeshua/Yehoshua
Latin was Jesus
Koine was Iesous

And all the work is all based around Iesous.

[MattMorales]

It could also be mentioned that his symbol is the feather or "shua" (representing the air and lightness). Obviously, Yehoshua/Yeshua was a Hebrew name going back at least a few centuries, but I'm suggesting there may have been some intermingling between the Hebrews and Egyptians in this case, as with many others.

[outhouse]

but I'm suggesting there may have been some intermingling between the Hebrews and Egyptians in this case, as with many others.

For Hebrew, I would look more to a Egyptian to Mesopotamian then Israelite connection, if there was one to be had.

It might help explain any possible plagiarism.

[cienfuegos]

Does this work if we are comparing the Hebrew to the Egptian? On thinks of the shortened form, "Yeshu" found in some Jewish texts. "Shu"

Aramaic was Isho
Hebrew was Yeshua/Yehoshua
Latin was Jesus
Koine was Iesous

And all the work is all based around Iesous.

I don't think we have anything to show the subject of our investigation was ever known as anything other than Iesous by Christians, a name derived from the LXX, is there? Other than by nomina sacra.

[outhouse]

I don't think we have anything to show the subject of our investigation was ever known as anything other than Iesous by Christians

.

Correct.



Now since the Op's context was one of translations, it is important to be able to know these, to be able to place Yeshua in context.

[MrMacSon]

Aramaic was Isho
Hebrew was Yeshua/Yehoshua
Latin was Jesus
Koine was Iesous

The late BC/BC / early AD/CE progression is likely to be

• 1a Aramaic was Isho
  1b Hebrew was ישוע (Yeshua/Yehoshua)
  2. Koine was Ἰησοῦς (Iēsous)
  3. Latin was/is Jesus IESVS/IESUS

The name [Jesus] is thus related to the Hebrew consonantal verb root verb y-š-ʕ ('to rescue' or 'deliver') and the Hebrew noun yešuaʕ (deliverance).[4] There have been a number of proposals as to the origin and etymological origin of the name Jesus (cf. Matthew 1:21*). The name is related to the Hebrew form יְהוֹשֻׁעַ Yehoshua / Joshua, which is a theophoric name first mentioned within the Biblical tradition in Exodus 17:9. This name is usually considered to be a compound of two parts: יהו Yeho, a theophoric reference to YHWH, the name of the God of Israel; plus Hosea, a form derived from the Hebrew triconsonantal root y-š-ʕ or י-ש-ע Numbers 13:16 "to liberate, save".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_(name)#Etymology

4 Brown Driver Briggs Hebrew and English Lexicon; Hendrickson Publishers; 1996. ISBN 1-56563-206-0.

* Matthew 1:21(ESV)
. "She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.”
.

The earliest putative reference to Yahweh in the historical record occurs in a list of Bedouin tribes of the Transjordan made by Amenhotep III (c. 1391 – 1353 BC) in the temple of Amon at Soleb. Therein, the name Yhw is included in a passage referencing "the land of Š3sw-yhw," or "the land of Shasu-y/iw"[21] The place name appears to be associated with Asiatic nomads in the 14th to 13th centuries BC.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh#Egyptian

21 Theological dictionary of the Old Testament, 5：G. Johannes Botterweck, Helmer Ringgren "Of the Egyptian evidence, a list of toponyms from the temple of Amon at Soleb (Amenhotep III, 1402-1363) is the earliest; here we find an entry t3 slsw yhw, "the land of Shasu-y/iw". Similar references occur in a block from Soleb"
.

I think we will find, or would find if we could do more Egyptian archaeology, that Egyptian theology & philosophy shaped the times or, at least, shaped Greek philosophy & theology.

[DCHindley]

The true Shu:

[outhouse]

I think we will find, or would find if we could do more Egyptian archaeology, that Egyptian theology & philosophy shaped the times or, at least, shaped Greek philosophy & theology.

The only hope is that the Egyptians would know something and give details about these foreign people. As it stands there is no connection to Shasu and Israelites. It misses the whole Cannanite step.

Not much can be known with the sea people and the collapse of all the major civilizations. We just have a bunch of displaced Semitics most from Canaanite bringing in different traditions, but Yahweh was in the Canaanite pantheon and mythology before any Israelite existed.


Most of the OT influence was Mesopotamian in nature, and I think little can be found in Egyptian cultures that can be tied in any way to Israelites.

[MattMorales]

but I'm suggesting there may have been some intermingling between the Hebrews and Egyptians in this case, as with many others.

For Hebrew, I would look more to a Egyptian to Mesopotamian then Israelite connection, if there was one to be had.

It might help explain any possible plagiarism.

Thanks for the replies, and my apologies for neglecting to respond until now (it was a busy work week). I should perhaps clarify that I am not thinking of "Shu" (aka "Su") as the origin of the Hebrew name "Yeshua/Yehoshua." I accept that as an independent tradition within Canaanite culture. What I am exploring, however, is that at some point (perhaps in the first century CE), some level of importance was attached to this name. It then made its way to Egypt and the similar sound of the names led to some degree of synchronization. This hypothesis could thus be attached to either a mythical or historical origin of the Christ cult.

As we well know, Egypt was a place of particular importance to the Hebrews and Christians. One thinks of the Egyptian prophet recounted by Acts and Josephus. It's possible this person was following the same line of tradition Matthew is when he quotes the LXX passage, "Out of Egypt I have called my son." There is also a high place of prominence given to the Alexandrian church (where Mark may have originated) and we also see a strong influence on Christianity by Philo of Alexandria. This is to say nothing of the various forms of gnosticism which thrived there as evidenced in the Nag Hammadi library.

When we look to the beginning of the Christian movement, Paul in 1 Corinthians alludes to a very simple message: "Christ Crucified." At the earliest stages of the tradition, we also receive witness of the basic tenants that Christ came down from heaven, was crucified, and then exalted to the right hand of Yahweh (Philippians 2). There is evidence that some of the ideas about Jesus were not necessarily drawn from Jewish messianic tradition. We might also ask why some chose to identify Jesus with Philo's Logos. The identification of Jesus as an embodiment of Shu by some Egyptian believers might explain the development of some of these ideas about Jesus at various stages in time. Here is a short list of potential parallels:

• First born son of the creator God
• Judge of the dead
• Intermediary between heaven and earth
• A god embodied by a man (Pharoah in one case, Jesus of Nazareth in the other)
• Female counterpart connected with ointment
• Light of the world and God's "breathe" ; represents "power" of monotheistic God and agent of creation as does the Logos
• Power over snakes
• Associated with "emptiness" (the empty tomb)
• Associated with aiding sailors
• Association with flight/ascension (Shu is represented by a feather "shua")
• Aided by "pillars" (4 in Shu's case) in order to uphold heavens/Christian movement
• Iconography of Shu may have influenced later iconography of Jesus on cross

Some of these parallels may be a stretch, but if even some of them are valid, I propose there may be a connection.