Parallels Between Jesus and the Egyptian God, "Shu"

[outhouse]

I don't know if it will help or not.

But the origins of Christianity has to do with the divorce of Hellenistic Judaism from cultural Judaism. It started hundreds of years before Jesus was born. The divorce was final with the fall of the temple. That is the context needed. Knowing you are dealing with Roman citizens like Paul and general gentiles through the Diaspora also gives you context.

Last the "son of god" is the early followers competing against the Roman Emperor first labeled as "son of god" so there is no mystery about the "son of god" origin. These followers proselytized followers of the Emperor trying to get them to switch to a more just "son of god" then a crooked politician called "son of god". There are many parallels to the Emperors divinity in all the writings. Jesus birth star is tied to Augustus celestial event as found on coins. Speaking to large crowds is another parallel to the Emperor.

The divinity of Jesus was that of a living man, then rhetorically sensationalized to make him a better choice then the politician. This mythology evolved into the son of the god of the Jews in time.


Since most all of Christianity is nothing more then plagiarized Judaism, with Hellenistic pagan mythological aspects that climbed aboard over hundreds of years, you might have your hands full trying to make a Egyptian connection when no visible obvious connect can be made outside imagination.

[MattMorales]

Bear with me here, Outhouse, as I am largely in agreement with your statements regarding Hellenized Judaism. I also find it likely that there was a crucified man named Jesus at the root of what became Christianity. Regardless, there are some interesting parallels which may disclose a connection to some of these later embellishments.

I do think that "Son of God," in the context, is most easily explained as originally being a counter to Caesar. However, once that claim is made, beliefs about a son of god from various cultures may have been added to the mix. The virgin birth, for instance, is more likely to come from Hellenistic cults. The claim that Jesus was "Son of God" may also have led to the identification with Philo's Logos. It is here, however, that we see even more striking parallels with Shu, because as the the great divider of heaven and earth, Shu shares an identical role with the Logos, which "divided and distributed everything in nature."

http://www.iep.utm.edu/philo/

I think Jesus' identification with the Logos may be where the connection lies, as the core belief in "Christ Crucified" is not shared with Shu. On the other hand, Jesus as raised up may be indication of a connection to both Shu and the Logos.

[outhouse]

The late BC/BC / early AD/CE progression is likely to be
1a Aramaic was Isho
1b Hebrew was ישוע (Yeshua/Yehoshua)
2. Koine was Ἰησοῦς (Iēsous)
3. Latin was/is Jesus IESVS/IESUS

I used to promote such. As far as Isho is concerned. Yeshua or Yehoshua I believe has a slightly higher plausibility than Isho. All 3 were probably used from the beginning, but where were they used geographically is the real question.

[outhouse]

I do think that "Son of God," in the context, is most easily explained as originally being a counter to Caesar. However, once that claim is made, beliefs about a son of god from various cultures may have been added to the mix. The virgin birth, for instance, is more likely to come from Hellenistic cults. The claim that Jesus was "Son of God" may also have led to the identification with Philo's Logos. It is here, however, that we see even more striking parallels with Shu, because as the the great divider of heaven and earth, Shu shares an identical role with the Logos, which "divided and distributed everything in nature."

Son of god was a direct parallel to the Roman son of god the Emperor. The same way the gospel scribes were paralleling Herods divinity as king of the Jews.

They were trying to replace a corrupt politician with a new and improved son of god. They were selling this son of god all through the Roman Empire, so context of this is pretty solid. Solid as it gets. We can also back this with what the scribes describe. Such as sermon on the mount or plain. This was a direct parallel of the Emperor speaking to large crowds, so they made Jesus out, as speaking to large crowds.

[mlinssen]

The late BC/BC / early AD/CE progression is likely to be
1a Aramaic was Isho
1b Hebrew was ישוע (Yeshua/Yehoshua)
2. Koine was Ἰησοῦς (Iēsous)
3. Latin was/is Jesus IESVS/IESUS

I used to promote such. As far as Isho is concerned. Yeshua or Yehoshua I believe has a slightly higher plausibility than Isho. All 3 were probably used from the beginning, but where were they used geographically is the real question.

I agree with your Egyptian connection, but not with the points above - all texts use abbreviations even though there is an occasional IHSOUS, e.g. in the Greek MSS for Joshua, and in the Coptic for "Jesus", once, in Melchizedek

It all started with Coptic IS and IHS

[nightshadetwine]

Son of god was a direct parallel to the Roman son of god the Emperor. The same way the gospel scribes were paralleling Herods divinity as king of the Jews.

They were trying to replace a corrupt politician with a new and improved son of god. They were selling this son of god all through the Roman Empire, so context of this is pretty solid. Solid as it gets. We can also back this with what the scribes describe. Such as sermon on the mount or plain. This was a direct parallel of the Emperor speaking to large crowds, so they made Jesus out, as speaking to large crowds.

Not only speaking to large crowds, but also feeding large crowds. Obviously, Jesus feeding large crowds is influenced by Moses and Elisha but the roman emperor along with deities such as Dionysus, Demeter, Isis, Osiris, etc. were also known for feeding people and were referred to as "benefactors". "Divine benefactors" were known for doing certain things for the benefit of humanity and they were usually deified for it. Things such as providing food for people, miraculous healings, salvation from death, protecting the poor and weak, etc. were some of the common benefits they provided, and in the NT texts Jesus provides all of those things. He's being portrayed as the ultimate divine benefactor.

“‘And All Ate and Were Filled’ (Mark 6.42 Par.): The Feeding Narratives in the Context of Hellenistic-Roman Banquet Culture.”, Angela Standhartinger In Decisive Meals: Table Politics in Biblical Literature, edited by Nathan MacDonald, Luzia Sutter Rehmann, and Kathy Ehrensperger:

In the following, I would like to introduce into the discussion a neglected socio-cultural context of the feeding narratives. In Hellenistic-Roman antiquity, Jesus is certainly not the only one who feeds four to five thousand people all at the same time... Not only Hellenistic kings and Roman emperors manifested their benevolence through such feedings; wealthy citizens in the provinces emulated them and sponsored a multiplicity of feedings in and for their cities. The great spread of public mass-feedings, of 'public' or 'civic banquets', put Jesus' feeding of the four to five thousand into a specific context... Male and female benefactors of Hellenistic and Roman (provincial) cities sponsored public feedings rather frequently. We know this primarily from inscriptions produced by the cities’ political authorities in gratitude for the benefit received...

If anywhere, those who had come to the temple or the sacred domain of the gods could expect to be given food in abundance without respect to their status. It is not surprising then that with the gods and goddesses, food never runs out. Dionysos, the god of banquets par excellence, is most famous for this feat. The Bacchae describe a feast of the gods... Whether the motif of inexhaustible sources of food makes this narrative a miracle story or not, the experience of 4-5,000 people being fed all at one time is not unusual in ancient times... The crowd is compared to a flock of sheep without a shepherd only in Mk 6.34. The citation from Num. 27.19 alludes to the political metaphor of the shepherd used throughout all of antiquity. Hence, right at the outset the expectation is raised that the ruling authorities, the kings and the emperors, cater to their people...

The Rhetorical Impact of the Semeia in the Gospel of John (Mohr Siebeck, 2004), Willis Hedley Salier:

Such benefactions, especially the distribution of grain, was also expected of the emperor. In the Res Gestae, Augustus speaks of his maintenance of the grain supply on several occasions as well as his general generosity in welfare matters... These are not strictly speaking parallels to the incident described in John 6. However, they do provide some context for their possible understanding as an act of generous benefaction. While the duties and benefactions of the benefactor were wider than bread, this action of Jesus would have been seen as the action of a generous and wealthy benefactor, if not a god... The sign forms a pair with the wedding at Cana where again Jesus has been presented in terms reminiscent of a benefactor. He has now shown himself willing and able to supply an abundance of two of the three staples of the Mediterranean diet, two of the three products that signify the blessing of God...

Finally, a subtle polemic against one of the more popular deities of the day is hinted at in that the provision of grain was the special provenance of the goddess Demeter. The Eleusinian mysteries, with which the name Demeter was intimately connected was amongst the more popular of the cults that proliferated. While there remains little clear detail regarding the practices of this cult there are indications that the promise of life was on offer through participation in a manner similar to that in the Dionysiac mysteries. Certainly the name Demeter was synonymous with grain and its production (Diodorus Siculus, Hist. 2.36.2; Epictetus, Diatr. 2.20.32). Jesus feeds a massive crowd through the multiplication of loaves and fish. The correspondence is not exact and the polemic not sharp but in view of the pattern of subtle polemic observed thus far perhaps the incident might make this connection as well for many in the audience. The materiality of the sign creates a wider cultural resonance that reinforces the point made concerning the sign in the narrative of the gospel. The feeding is the generous benefaction of the very basic material of life. It is little wonder that the crowd is described as attempting to make Jesus their leader.

Mystery Cults, Theatre and Athenian Politics: A Reading of Euripides' Bacchae and Aristophanes' Frogs (Bloomsbury Academic, 2021), Luigi Barzini:

We now turn to the nature of the two Athenian mystery cults and their definition in ethnological terms. In many respects, the Athenian Eleusinian and Dionysiac mystery cults are very similar. The twin role of the deities [Dionysus and Demeter] as coming to the polis of Athens as foreigners, xenoi, and of their giving of gifts to mankind, the collective polis-wide mode of their festivals, their life-changing initiation rituals and their eschatological content are some of the shared elements of the two cults... Both xenoi gods brought gifts to humankind, gifts whose acceptance cause a deep transformation of social structures, after the initial and often violent disorder created by the arrival of the ‘new’... As we noted, equally revolutionary are the gifts of Demeter in the Homeric Hymn. In the Hymn, the goddess describes herself to the girls drawing water at the well as the Giver, and, as she later proclaims her divinity to the women in the palace, she defines the nature of her gift: ‘I am Demeter, the greatest source of help and joy to mortals and immortals’. Her gift not only grants the fertility of the soil but also marks the foundation of those rituals that give mortals an abundance of spiritual and physical goods during life and in the afterlife, the equivalent of immortality.

Dining with John: Communal Meals and Identity Formation in the Fourth Gospel and Its Historical and Cultural Context (Brill, 2011), Esther Kobel:

Throughout the Homeric Hymn to Demeter, the goddess is praised as the provider of food and life... Demeter is often closely related to Dionysus. In the Bacchae, the two are mentioned together as providers of food and drink... Dionysus not only offers a parallel to Demeter but also to Jesus as providers of food.

Dionysos (Routledge, 2006), Richard Seaford:

The next text (chronologically) to take what seems to be a philosophical view of Dionysos is a passage of Euripides’ Bacchae in which Teiresias tries to persuade Pentheus that Dionysos is a great god. He maintains that there are ‘two first things’ among humankind. One is Demeter or Earth, who sustains mortals ‘with dry things’, and the other is Dionysos, who gave mortals the ‘liquid drink’ of wine to relieve their sufferings (274–83)... Just as Demeter’s introduction of corn was celebrated in her mystery-cult at Eleusis, so Dionysos’ introduction of wine might be celebrated in his mystery-cult... as the sophist Prodikos (a contemporary of Euripides) puts it – ‘the ancients considered all things that benefit our life gods because of their benefit... and for this reason bread was considered to be Demeter and wine Dionysos’.

Iesus Deus: The Early Christian Depiction of Jesus as a Mediterranean God (Augsburg Fortress Publishers, 2014), M. David Litwa:

The divinity of Jesus, in comparison to the divinity of various other Mediterranean deities, is a pervasive theme in Origen’s Contra Celsum. The third-century ce. Alexandrian theologian expends enormous intellectual energy proving Christ’s divinity over against popular gods like Heracles, Asclepius, and Dionysus. Such an oppositional stance might seem to support the common view that the Contra Celsum assumes a purely contra gentes (“against the [pagan] nations”) mentality. Upon closer examination, however, Origen and Celsus employ strikingly similar notions of divinity as well as what deeds and qualities deify human beings. These commonalities indicate that both Christian apologist and anti-Christian critic were tapping into conceptions of deity and deification that were common coin in the ancient Mediterranean world. The common conception I explore in this chapter is summed up in Pliny the Elder’s phrase deus est iuvare, roughly “divinity signifies benefaction.”

Although ancient Mediterranean religions obviously featured a wide spectrum of divinities who displayed numerous qualities and powers, there was widespread consensus on what made gods and deified humans divine. It was a display of power, and particularly power to bestow benefits (e.g., to liberate from oppression, to protect against danger, or to heal disease). Abundant references from classical authors and inscriptions establish this point... In the summary of Diodorus of Sicily: “Because of their benefactions to people, they [the benefactors] received immortal honor and reputation, as did Heracles, Dionysus, Aristaeus, and the others similar to these.”... To be recognized as a god—to be deified—one must provide benefaction to aid human beings.