Researching a historical novel based on the Pantera legend

[Stephan Huller]

I think that Abdes is a male Phoenician name that means "servant of Isis" and/or "scourge" and that if he was a temple slave the name isn't because he was a temple slave but simply his name

This is where you can see you are a writer (= imaginative) rather than a real scholar (= knowledgeable/have something of worth to say). The name comes from a common Semitic root. That's all. Sorry to spoil the 'plot.' But this already sounds like bullshit (from the point of view of the finding out the truth; I am in the entertainment business so I could hardly begrudge someone wanting to put on a song and dance).

[DCHindley]

That makes me think. I'm probably not being clear, sorry about that if I am, but I think that Abdes is a male Phoenician name that means "servant of Isis" and/or "scourge" and that if he was a temple slave the name isn't because he was a temple slave but simply his name.http://books.google.com.au/books?id=s2K ... his%20book mentions a man called "Abdes the Tyrian."

Without spoiling the plot, I'll say that my idea was that he was a temple slave at the temple of Astarte and Eshmun in Sidon before he joined the army. Do you know if temple slaves could be domestic servants to the officials as well? What I've read seems to suggest that in some places they were actually marked with tattoos to show they "belonged" to the temple and could also hire themselves out for jobs.

Now I do not doubt that the man was actually named "Abdes" and that this probably means something like "slave/servant." But why Isis? That is what Diessman said as-if-fact, not the inscription itself. I had suggested that there were probably local deities with temples that operated estates, and this is the kind of thing that you can find out by reading old classical commentaries and travel monologues. In fact, I'd avoid "slave of Isis" for some respectful local deity with a temple estate.

"Temple slaves" were not personal assistants. In fact, they were not really "slaves" in the sense we think of. They were simply the tenant farmers of the estates the temples operated to feed the priests and raise sacrificial animals. Now it probably wasn't a bad gig. There would be food enough, and they were more than likely treated well. In this period, though, the Romans were trying to reduce the size of such estates, and some of the assets were confiscated by the state. Now even though the temple estate may be confiscated, it is given to someone else (an elite, maybe a government official, of course) and they still need tenants. Still, it isn't the same if it is not a temple estate. There you have a plausible reason why this particular one joined the Roman army as an auxiliary soldier. He must have left the estate at a young age. Forty years as a soldier! The enlistment period was something like 25 years, after which it seems he was granted Roman citizenship upon retirement. This was something to be celebrated, as there were usually gifts and accumulated booty and possibly a land grant in a newly established colony (there were hundreds of them).

However, that wasn't everyone's cup of tea. It wasn't unusual for retired soldiers to be asked to return to duty as an administrative assistant to the brass (in the Roman legions this kind of assistant was called an evocatus, although what they called them in the auxiliaries I don't know). Perhaps this is another angle to consider.

Since you don't want your portrayal to be cliché, that is, what everyone else says, I'd do some research on Roman auxiliary units that may have served in the area where the tombstone was found, but are more likely to have been stationed there in that period than the unit suggested by Diessman's anonymous friend.

Actually, I am pleased to see that you were inspired to do your own research. Keep it up!

DCH

[Sigurdrifa]

@DCH: Thanks. By "are more likely to have been stationed there in that period than the unit suggested by Diessman's anonymous friend" do you mean in Galilee/Judaea in that period?


@Stephan: Yes I'm not an expert or scholar and you're definitely right about the name. Apologies if I gave the impression that I was trying to "find out the truth" (pretty much impossible since no-one can know whether or not this story has any truth, but chances are it doesn't, given its context and how late it is). What I'm actually planning to do is make my version of this legend which has no historical basis but has inspired writers in the past plausible by doing a lot of historical research to get some background for the period and create a sense of the historical setting.

[Leucius Charinus]

Does anyone know of good resources-- books, papers etc on daily life just before the birth of Jesus, especially in Sidon where Abdes Pantera was born? I'm particularly looking for information on temple slavery related to Ashtart/Astarte that isn't the same stuff repeated over and over again, and I know that's hard to find.

Hi Sigurdrifa and welcome,

And good luck with your research on this and that. I probably cant assist directly but anyway ...

1) The Pandera/Pantera mentioned by Celsus may also refer to an earlier character in the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toledot_Yeshu

2) There appears to have been a class of people known to the classical world as the "attendants" or the "worshippers" of <INSERT A GOD HERE>. These people may not necessarily have been temple slaves. Have a look at the classical term "therapeutae"
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/tex ... apeuth%2Fs

3) The empire just before the (assumed) date of birth of Jesus was being guided by the "genius" of Augustus, son of the "Divine" Julius. If you have not already read through the Res Gestae Divi Augusti it might provide some sort of background to some of the major events during the rule of Augustus.
SEE WIKI: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Res_Gestae_Divi_Augusti

• 1. In my nineteenth year, on my own initiative and at my own expense, I raised an army with which I set free the state, which was oppressed by the domination of a faction. For that reason, the senate enrolled me in its order by laudatory resolutions, when Gaius Pansa and Aulus Hirtius were consuls (43 B.C.E.), assigning me the place of a consul in the giving of opinions, and gave me the imperium. With me as propraetor, it ordered me, together with the consuls, to take care lest any detriment befall the state. But the people made me consul in the same year, when the consuls each perished in battle, and they made me a triumvir for the settling of the state.
  
  And on it goes down to c.14 CE

4) If you are committed to a focus upon Sidon, have a search around for any archaeological reports or articles about excavations in Sidon.
http://www.ancient.eu/sidon/
http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/dail ... f-history/
http://archaeology.about.com/od/shthrou ... /sidon.htm

5) You might also like to make a study of inscriptions from Sidon which were dedicated around your preferred time period:
https://www.google.com.au/search?as_q=i ... gws_rd=ssl


6) Coins related to Sidon may also assist bringing realistic elements into your narrative.
EG: http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numisw ... ?key=sidon

Good luck with the project.

Be well,


LC

[Sigurdrifa]

Does anyone know of good resources-- books, papers etc on daily life just before the birth of Jesus, especially in Sidon where Abdes Pantera was born? I'm particularly looking for information on temple slavery related to Ashtart/Astarte that isn't the same stuff repeated over and over again, and I know that's hard to find.

Hi Sigurdrifa and welcome,

And good luck with your research on this and that. I probably cant assist directly but anyway ...

1) The Pandera/Pantera mentioned by Celsus may also refer to an earlier character in the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toledot_Yeshu

2) There appears to have been a class of people known to the classical world as the "attendants" or the "worshippers" of <INSERT A GOD HERE>. These people may not necessarily have been temple slaves. Have a look at the classical term "therapeutae"
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/tex ... apeuth%2Fs

3) The empire just before the (assumed) date of birth of Jesus was being guided by the "genius" of Augustus, son of the "Divine" Julius. If you have not already read through the Res Gestae Divi Augusti it might provide some sort of background to some of the major events during the rule of Augustus.
SEE WIKI: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Res_Gestae_Divi_Augusti

• 1. In my nineteenth year, on my own initiative and at my own expense, I raised an army with which I set free the state, which was oppressed by the domination of a faction. For that reason, the senate enrolled me in its order by laudatory resolutions, when Gaius Pansa and Aulus Hirtius were consuls (43 B.C.E.), assigning me the place of a consul in the giving of opinions, and gave me the imperium. With me as propraetor, it ordered me, together with the consuls, to take care lest any detriment befall the state. But the people made me consul in the same year, when the consuls each perished in battle, and they made me a triumvir for the settling of the state.
  
  And on it goes down to c.14 CE

4) If you are committed to a focus upon Sidon, have a search around for any archaeological reports or articles about excavations in Sidon.
http://www.ancient.eu/sidon/
http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/dail ... f-history/
http://archaeology.about.com/od/shthrou ... /sidon.htm

5) You might also like to make a study of inscriptions from Sidon which were dedicated around your preferred time period:
https://www.google.com.au/search?as_q=i ... gws_rd=ssl


6) Coins related to Sidon may also assist bringing realistic elements into your narrative.
EG: http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numisw ... ?key=sidon

Good luck with the project.

Be well,


LC

LC, thanks for the welcome and those links, especially the coins and inscriptions and Res Gestae Divi Augusti. I've actually read a long summary of the Toledot Yeshu before and also read about the Therapeutae. Will read through those.

[DCHindley]

@DCH: Thanks. By "are more likely to have been stationed there in that period than the unit suggested by Diessman's anonymous friend" do you mean in Galilee/Judaea in that period?

Actually, I meant stationed in the Rhine, where Abdes was when he died. Look up "First Cohort of Archers" and you will find many units associated with many armies, all over the Roman empire. The formal Roman army (the Legions) tended to be heavy infantry and artillery with a smidgeon of cavalry. If you want archers, or slingers, or lighter armored (and thus more maneuverable) soldiers, you recruited auxiliary units locally, made up of non-Romans sometimes with the promise of Roman citizenship upon completion of the 25 year enlistment. These units are recruited as needed but generally once formed they are kept intact (unless they sucked, same as legions) and moved around as needed, sometimes connected with this, sometimes that, Legion.

Since one of the privileges granted to Judeans ("Jews") was that they were exempt from military service for religious reasons. You don't see many Judeans in the Roman army, whether Legionary or Auxiliary. The Romans did recruit from the Greek residents of Samaria and elsewhere in the region. Roman armies are the most likely parties to have recruited Abdes, but it could have been anywhere, really. The Jewish kings (like Herod, or Antipas, or Agrippa, etc) had more significant numbers of Judeans in their own armies, although most of their soldiers were also Greeks, and they did at times send specialized units to help the Romans when asked.

Hopefully this makes sense, as I am home sick this morning and have to think around waves of nausea. The old FRDB had a nice barfing emoticon, but not here ...

DCH

[Peter Kirby]

It sounds like an interesting project. Good luck finding what you need!

[Sigurdrifa]

It sounds like an interesting project. Good luck finding what you need!

Thanks. And thanks everyone who's replied; I really appreciate it and think I have enough additional resources now and can continue on with the research I was already doing for it
Could I have this thread locked?