The agony of Jesus on Gethsemani as a cosmic war against Rome

[Giuseppe]

It seems that the agony of Jesus on Gethsemani is based on a midrash from the wrestling between Jacob and the Angel of YHWH in Genesis, only with a difference: the Angel in question is interpreted as the Angel of Esauh (i.e. Jacob is wrestling really against Esauh) and since Esauh == Rome, then Jacob, and by midrashical extension Jesus, is wrestling really with Rome.

The two swords in Luke are two since one is for Jesus, the other for Satan (=Rome).

I see that the agony episode is found also in Mark, hence I wonder if really what Luke (Marcion) is doing here is to make explicit what was found in nuce in Mark, where there is not an angel, but Judas comes and probably he is possessed by the angel (Satan, alias Rome).

[JPCusickSr]

It seems that the agony of Jesus on Gethsemani is based on a midrash from the wrestling between Jacob and the Angel of YHWH in Genesis, only with a difference: the Angel in question is interpreted as the Angel of Esauh (i.e. Jacob is wrestling really against Esauh) and since Esauh == Rome, then Jacob, and by midrashical extension Jesus, is wrestling really with Rome.

The two swords in Luke are two since one is for Jesus, the other for Satan (=Rome).

I see that the agony episode is found also in Mark, hence I wonder if really what Luke (Marcion) is doing here is to make explicit what was found in nuce in Mark, where there is not an angel, but Judas comes and probably he is possessed by the angel (Satan, alias Rome).

My understanding is that Jesus was fighting or wrestling with the Father God - a spiritual war, because Jesus was here to save humanity from the wrath of God.

Christianity has never been able to distinguish between Satan and the Father because Satan has always been a servant of the Father.

As in you are saying that Rome was acting for Satan (Rome = Satan) but in Romans 13:1-7 it declares that Rome is working for the Father God.

It was a cosmic war between the word and the Father.

[Giuseppe]

In this text from the first century CE, The Prayer of Joseph, the angel against whom Jacob wrestles is said to be Uriel, i.e. the angel of Esauh (Edom), i.e. by logical extension, Rome.

And when I was coming up from Syrian Mesopotamia, Uriel, the angel of God, came forth and said that ‘I [Jacob-Israel] had descended to earth and I had tabernacled among men and that I had been called by the name of Jacob.’ He envied me and fought with me and wrestled with me saying that his name and the name that is before every angel was to be above mine. 6I told him his name and what rank he held among the sons of God. ‘Are you not Uriel, the eighth after me? and I, Israel, the archangel of the power of the Lord and the chief captain among the sons of God? Am I not Israel, the first minister before the face of God?’ And I called upon my God by the inextinguishable name.”

https://readingacts.com/2018/06/28/the- ... of-joseph/

[RandyHelzerman]

I aways read it that Jesus was wrestling with himself. But I guess if you are a trinitarian....