Mark 14-15 "fulfilling scripture"

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rgprice
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Mark 14-15 "fulfilling scripture"

Post by rgprice »

We have discussed in other threads the possibility that Mark was conformed back to Matthew when the four Gospel collection was produced. There are several parts of Mark that I think have been conformed to Matthew, but this is one I just noticed and think is interesting.

The Gospel of Mark uses many, many scriptural references, but never talks about the actions of Jesus fulfilling the scriptures in the context of those references. On the other hand, Matthew frequently talks about Jesus fulfilling the scriptures.

https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearc ... =47&end=47

Let's look at the arrest and crucifixion of Jesus in Mark and Matthew:

Mark 14:
45 After coming, Judas immediately went to Him, saying, “Rabbi!” and kissed Him. 46 They laid hands on Him and seized Him. 47 But one of those who stood by drew his sword, and struck the slave of the high priest and cut off his ear. 48 And Jesus said to them, “Have you come out with swords and clubs to arrest Me, as you would against a robber? 49 Every day I was with you in the temple teaching, and you did not seize Me; but this has taken place to fulfill the Scriptures.” 50 And they all left Him and fled.


27 They crucified two robbers with Him, one on His right and one on His left. 28 [And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “And He was numbered with transgressors.”] 29 Those passing by were hurling abuse at Him, wagging their heads, and saying, “Ha! You who are going to destroy the temple and rebuild it in three days, 30 save Yourself, and come down from the cross!”

Now, v28 is known to be a later addition. There are mss without it. But interestingly, knowing this only highlights how "unMarkan" it is. Yet compare this to v14:49.

14:49 is the only place in all of the Gospel of Mark that says something happened in order to fulfill scripture, outside of 15:28.

In Matthew we read:
51 And behold, one of those who were with Jesus reached and drew out his sword, and struck the slave of the high priest and cut off his ear. 52 Then Jesus *said to him, “Put your sword back into its place; for all those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword. 53 Or do you think that I cannot appeal to My Father, and He will at once put at My disposal more than twelve legions of angels? 54 How then will the Scriptures be fulfilled, which say that it must happen this way?

55 At that time Jesus said to the crowds, “Have you come out with swords and clubs to arrest Me as you would against a robber? Every day I used to sit in the temple teaching and you did not seize Me. 56 But all this has taken place to fulfill the Scriptures of the prophets.” Then all the disciples left Him and fled.

Now Luke:
Luke 22:
48 But Jesus said to him, “Judas, are you betraying the Son of Man with a kiss?” 49 When those who were around Him saw what was going to happen, they said, “Lord, shall we strike with the sword?” 50 And one of them struck the slave of the high priest and cut off his right ear. 51 But Jesus answered and said, “Stop! No more of this.” And He touched his ear and healed him. 52 Then Jesus said to the chief priests and officers of the temple and elders who had come against Him, “Have you come out with swords and clubs as you would against a robber? 53 While I was with you daily in the temple, you did not lay hands on Me; but this hour and the power of darkness are yours.”

54 Having arrested Him, they led Him away and brought Him to the house of the high priest; but Peter was following at a distance.

So in Luke there is no mention of fulfilling prophecy here.

Luke also contains:
Luke 22:
36 And He said to them, “But now, whoever has a money belt is to take it along, likewise also a bag, and whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one. 37 For I tell you that this which is written must be fulfilled in Me, ‘And He was numbered with transgressors’; for that which refers to Me has its fulfillment.” 38 They said, “Lord, look, here are two swords.” And He said to them, “It is enough.”

This is of course relocated to Mark 15 in the late addition.

Now John:
John 18:
3 Judas then, having received the Roman cohort and officers from the chief priests and the Pharisees, came there with lanterns and torches and weapons. 4 So Jesus, knowing all the things that were coming upon Him, went forth and said to them, “Whom do you seek?” 5 They answered Him, “Jesus the Nazarene.” He said to them, “I am He.” And Judas also, who was betraying Him, was standing with them. 6 So when He said to them, “I am He,” they drew back and fell to the ground. 7 Therefore He again asked them, “Whom do you seek?” And they said, “Jesus the Nazarene.” 8 Jesus answered, “I told you that I am He; so if you seek Me, let these go their way,” 9 to fulfill the word which He spoke, “Of those whom You have given Me I lost not one.” 10 Simon Peter then, having a sword, drew it and struck the high priest’s slave, and cut off his right ear; and the slave’s name was Malchus. 11 So Jesus said to Peter, “Put the sword into the sheath; the cup which the Father has given Me, shall I not drink it?”

12 So the Roman cohort and the commander and the officers of the Jews, arrested Jesus and bound Him, 13 and led Him to Annas first; for he was father-in-law of Caiaphas, who was high priest that year.

So here the writer/revisor of John has Jesus send the disciples away at his arrest in order to "save them", which fulfills prophecy (whereas in Mark the disciples abandon Jesus).

So in the Gospel of Mark, not one single time other than v14:49, do we read that something happened in order to fulfill scripture. The Hermeneia on Mark has the following commentary on v48-49:

48-49: These verses are probably Markan additions to his source. ... The final statement of Jesus (v49b) in this short speech implies that his arrest is taking place "in order that the scriptures may be fulfilled". Although the point is disputed, this seems to be the clearest statement in Mark of the idea that the events of the passion of Jesus take place in the fulfillment of the scriptures read as prophecies. ... It is certainly the case that Mark does not develop the idea of the fulfillment of scripture to the extent that Matthew does, but he does seem to express the notion here.

They go on to suggest that the scripture being fulfilled is Zech 13:7:
Awake, O sword, against My Shepherd,
And against the man, My Associate,”
Declares the Lord of hosts.
“Strike the Shepherd that the sheep may be scattered;
And I will turn My hand against the little ones.

I agree with this reference, as this is very much in agreement with the types of references used by Mark, BUT calling out that something happened "in order to fulfill the scriptures" is very unMarkan.

Rather, I think that this is a case where Matthew recognized the reference to Zech 13 and called out that the events were fulfilling prophecy, and the editor of Mark conformed the Markan narrative back to Matthew here. Now this isn't the only place where Mark was conformed to Matthew, but this is a pretty distinctive one. And if one can acknowledge that this is indeed a case of Mark being edited to conform to Matthew, then of course there is no reason to think that this is the one and only place it happened.

Not only does Mark contain the Matthean language, but Luke lacks the claim about prophecy fulfillment. Yet Luke does contain claims about prophecy fulfillment. Luke here seems to be a witness to a version of the Markan source that lacks this claim about prophecy fulfillment.
rgprice
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Re: Mark 14-15 "fulfilling scripture"

Post by rgprice »

There are more interesting additions here. From BeDuhn:

Omission: Luke 22.35–37 was absent from the Evangelion, according to
Epiphanius
, Scholion 64.
Luke 22.38–40 is unattested. As a continuation of the certainly absent vv.
35–37, v. 38 probably was also absent, particularly since armed disciples
would have been useful to cite against Marcion’s pacifism.

In the Gospel of Luke v37 is really the only other direct claim from Luke 3-23 of Jesus explicitly fulfilling prophecy. The witnesses of Marcion's Gospel indicates that this was not present in the *Ev, and when you look at v37 in Luke, it also appears to be a late addition.

So really, the only claims of Jesus "fulfilling prophecy" in Luke are in Luke 1-2, Luke 24 and this one passage in Luke 22, which adds the same claim that is added to Mark 15 during the Crucifixion.

Thus, Luke/*Ev does indeed seem witness to an earlier narrative in which there is no claim here of Jesus "fulfilling prophecy".

So this appears to indicate a systematic effort of editors to modify these narratives in a homogeneous way across the Gospels to indicate that Jesus had "fulfilled prophecy".

This further supports the conclusion that Mark 14:49 is revision to the earlier narrative that was made in the presence of the other Gospels, namely Matthew.

It looks in this case like Both Mark and Luke were being conformed to Matthew here.

Matthew, I think, was derived from proto-Luke, with canonical Luke be conformed back to canonical Matthew. So there are circular references between Luke and Matthew.
rgprice
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Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:57 pm

Re: Mark 14-15 "fulfilling scripture"

Post by rgprice »

Reading this again, certainly the Lukan reading is better.

Mark 14:45 After coming, Judas immediately went to Him, saying, “Rabbi!” and kissed Him. 46 They laid hands on Him and seized Him. 47 But one of those who stood by drew his sword, and struck the slave of the high priest and cut off his ear. 48 And Jesus said to them, “Have you come out with swords and clubs to arrest Me, as you would against a robber? 49 Every day I was with you in the temple teaching, and you did not seize Me; but this has taken place to fulfill the Scriptures, but [you come at] this hour [under the cover] of darkness.” 50 And they all left Him and fled.

What is said in Luke, which I have slightly modified here to make the meaning more clear, follows on from the first part of the sentence. The first part of the sentence highlights the fact that the priests did not arrest Jesus openly in the light of day, but instead they are coming to take him in the dark of night.

Surely this it what the original narrative said, because v49a is such an obvious setup for v49b. As the verse sits in canonical Mark now, v49b is disconnected from v49a. Its just thrown in. It is so Matthean in nature.

So I consider this a very solid point now in support of the case that canonical Mark was conformed to Matthew.
Last edited by rgprice on Wed Feb 21, 2024 3:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
davidmartin
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Re: Mark 14-15 "fulfilling scripture"

Post by davidmartin »

RG, I thought the same here in 1Cor 5:7 what you think? We're seeing these texts get a bit of an orthodoxising in these little additions that show the orthodox were saying 'look guys, we really believe in the scriptural fulfillment and the prophecies, that's us'. so we're seeing the idea's of that later phase going back into the earlier texts not really sure what folk were believing earlier
Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven works through the whole batch of dough? Get rid of the old leaven, that you may be a new unleavened batch, as you really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. Therefore let us keep the feast, not with the old bread, leavened with malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and of truth
rgprice
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Re: Mark 14-15 "fulfilling scripture"

Post by rgprice »

davidmartin wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2024 2:53 am RG, I thought the same here in 1Cor 5:7 what you think? We're seeing these texts get a bit of an orthodoxising in these little additions that show the orthodox were saying 'look guys, we really believe in the scriptural fulfillment and the prophecies, that's us'. so we're seeing the idea's of that later phase going back into the earlier texts not really sure what folk were believing earlier
Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven works through the whole batch of dough? Get rid of the old leaven, that you may be a new unleavened batch, as you really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. Therefore let us keep the feast, not with the old bread, leavened with malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and of truth
I'm not sure about this one, because I don't think this has to be read as indicating prophecy fulfillment. I've always read this passage as an incidental comment on Passover just because Paul happened to be writing to people who were preparing for Passover. In other words XC wasn't inherently associated with the Paschal Lamb, Paul just made the association here because of the context.

However, I think this was original to the letters because it is this passage that causes the Gospel writer to situate the Crucifixion of Jesus during Passover.

Note from BeDuhn:
6[. . . Do you not
know that a little yeast spoils the whole batch?] 7Clean out
the old yeast, so that you may be a new batch, since you
are unleavened. For, indeed, our Pascha was sacrificed:
Christos
. . . . 13. . . Remove the wicked from yourselves.

And in his notes he indicates that this is attested in both Epiphanius and Tertullian.
davidmartin
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Re: Mark 14-15 "fulfilling scripture"

Post by davidmartin »

I thought it could indirectly connect to prophecy around the sacrificial atonement (like 1cor15 'For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures'). I see a connection to interpretations around prophecy that might come from a bit later like 15:3-5

But they weren't preparing for passover here in 1Cor 5 in v4 he talks about 'being assembled together' and eating together (and to do it morally) maybe with a sacramental meal going on. Food is a bit of a theme in ch6 and 8. Not sure the context is to do with keeping a traditional Jewish passover that's not a thing for Paul he's not a fan of that. no other epistle calls Jesus a lamb anywhere

what I saw was an address in the imperative then an insertion then back to the imperative
True, its thought to be in Marcion but chapter 15 was different maybe this was also. Maybe it's on some scholars list of interpolations somewhere, wish I knew how to check that.. maybe the answer is 'google'!
rgprice
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Re: Mark 14-15 "fulfilling scripture"

Post by rgprice »

I guess in this context Paul is saying that "we don't need a Paschal Lamb because we have Christ". But anyway, I don't want to derail this topic debating the Pauline letters, as I'm trying to focus on evidence that Mark was conformed to Matthew.
davidmartin
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Re: Mark 14-15 "fulfilling scripture"

Post by davidmartin »

fair enough but either what you say took place in multiple texts or why only Mark and no-where else, maybe it also took place also in 1 Corinthians. i don't think Paul's saying that at all, he's on a morality diatribe and the passover lamb comes out of nowhere. I think ch10 and 11 show he's talking about the lord's supper. there is no problem with Judaisation in the Corinthians correct, his problem is ex-pagans paganing and partying when he's not there!

But to keep on topic. Mark also conforms to Matthew in it's single, solitary reference to hell where it's obviously copied in from Matthew. 9:48
rgprice
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Re: Mark 14-15 "fulfilling scripture"

Post by rgprice »

davidmartin wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2024 4:54 am But to keep on topic. Mark also conforms to Matthew in it's single, solitary reference to hell where it's obviously copied in from Matthew. 9:48
What is the case to be made here? The relationship of Mark 9:42-49 to Matthew is complicated. I would that that Mark 9:42-49 doesn't have any particular scriptural parallel that I can identify, nor does it relate to the Pauline letters, it its possible. But I'm not sure how strong of a case can be made beyond that. I'd like to know more about it though.
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