Inside Mark: Voices Come Over Them

[Kunigunde Kreuzerin]

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Two would-be kings talk like kings: Herod speaks the words of Ahasuerus and Jesus speaks the words of David

Mark 6:22f	And the king said the to the girl, “Ask me whatever you wish, and I will give to you.” And he swore to her, “Whatever you might ask me, I will give you, up to half of my kingdom.”
Esther 5:3 (and 7:2)	Then the king asked, “What is it, Queen Esther? What is your request? Even up to half the kingdom, it will be given you.”

Mark 15:34	And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?” Which is translated, “My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?
Psalm (of David) 22:1	My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?

[rgprice]

I don't think Psalm 22 was chosen due to any association with David, it was chosen for its content.

[Kunigunde Kreuzerin]

I don't think Psalm 22 was chosen due to any association with David, it was chosen for its content.

imho Mark 6 is particularly interesting because Herod receives his title "King" from the narrator at the very moment when he begins to talk like King Ahasuerus, and is then referred to as "King".

Mark 6
14 King Herod heard of it, for Jesus’b name had become known. Somec said, “John the Baptist has been raised from the dead. That is why these miraculous powers are at work in him.” 15 But others said, “He is Elijah.” And others said, “He is a prophet, like one of the prophets of old.” 16 But when Herod heard of it, he said, “John, whom I beheaded, has been raised.” 17 For it was Herod who had sent and seized John and bound him in prison for the sake of Herodias, his brother Philip’s wife, because he had married her. 18 For John had been saying to Herod, “It is not lawful for you to have your brother’s wife.” 19 And Herodias had a grudge against him and wanted to put him to death. But she could not, 20 for Herod feared John, knowing that he was a righteous and holy man, and he kept him safe. When he heard him, he was greatly perplexed, and yet he heard him gladly. 21 But an opportunity came when Herod on his birthday gave a banquet for his nobles and military commanders and the leading men of Galilee. 22 For when Herodias’s daughter came in and danced, she pleased Herod and his guests. And the king said to the girl, “Ask me for whatever you wish, and I will give it to you.” 23 And he vowed to her, “Whatever you ask me, I will give you, up to half of my kingdom.” 24 And she went out and said to her mother, “For what should I ask?” And she said, “The head of John the Baptist.” 25 And she came in immediately with haste to the king and asked, saying, “I want you to give me at once the head of John the Baptist on a platter.” 26 And the king was exceedingly sorry, but because of his oaths and his guests he did not want to break his word to her. 27 And immediately the king sent an executioner with orders to bring John’se head. He went and beheaded him in the prison 28 and brought his head on a platter and gave it to the girl, and the girl gave it to her mother. 29 When his disciples heard of it, they came and took his body and laid it in a tomb.

Mark 6:22f and Mark 15:34 seem to be connected in terms of content through Mark 10:37ff. The request of James and John in Mark 10:37 is comparable to the offer that Herod makes to Salome but Jesus' answer refers to the crucifixion scene, in which the words of David are then shouted.

Mark 6:22f	And the king said the to the girl, “Ask me whatever you wish, and I will give to you.” And he swore to her, “Whatever you might ask me, I will give you, up to half of my kingdom.”
Mark 10:37ff	37 And they said to him, “Grant us to sit, one at your right hand and one at your left, in your glory.” 38 Jesus said to them, “You do not know what you are asking. Are you able to drink the cup that I drink, or to be baptized with the baptism with which I am baptized?” 39 And they said to him, “We are able.” And Jesus said to them, “The cup that I drink you will drink, and with the baptism with which I am baptized, you will be baptized, 40 but to sit at my right hand or at my left is not mine to grant, but it is for those for whom it has been prepared.”
Mark 15:34	And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?” Which is translated, “My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?

[Ken Olson]

I don't think Psalm 22 was chosen due to any association with David, it was chosen for its content.

imho Mark 6 is particularly interesting because Herod receives his title "King" from the narrator at the very moment when he begins to talk like King Ahasuerus, and is then referred to as "King".

I think that's a valuable insight into what Mark is doing in Mark 6, particularly since that particular Herod was not actually a King. I'm going to steal that for a paper I'm writing on editorial fatigue.

I'm less confident about Mark's use of Psalm 22, but it does fit with the heavy use of dramatic irony in Mark chapters 14-16, in which the accusations and mockery directed against Jesus by his opponents are (mostly) true, but not in the way the opponents mean. I think the heavy use of royal titles and imagery in the passion narrative are part of that theme and Jesus' quotation of King David would fit that. I shall have to think about it some more.

Best,

Ken

[JoeWallack]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkcKQmr7kRc

I don't think Psalm 22 was chosen due to any association with David, it was chosen for its content.

imho Mark 6 is particularly interesting because Herod receives his title "King" from the narrator at the very moment when he begins to talk like King Ahasuerus, and is then referred to as "King".

Mark 6
14 King Herod heard of it, for Jesus’b name had become known. Somec said, “John the Baptist has been raised from the dead. That is why these miraculous powers are at work in him.” 15 But others said, “He is Elijah.” And others said, “He is a prophet, like one of the prophets of old.” 16 But when Herod heard of it, he said, “John, whom I beheaded, has been raised.” 17 For it was Herod who had sent and seized John and bound him in prison for the sake of Herodias, his brother Philip’s wife, because he had married her. 18 For John had been saying to Herod, “It is not lawful for you to have your brother’s wife.” 19 And Herodias had a grudge against him and wanted to put him to death. But she could not, 20 for Herod feared John, knowing that he was a righteous and holy man, and he kept him safe. When he heard him, he was greatly perplexed, and yet he heard him gladly. 21 But an opportunity came when Herod on his birthday gave a banquet for his nobles and military commanders and the leading men of Galilee. 22 For when Herodias’s daughter came in and danced, she pleased Herod and his guests. And the king said to the girl, “Ask me for whatever you wish, and I will give it to you.” 23 And he vowed to her, “Whatever you ask me, I will give you, up to half of my kingdom.” 24 And she went out and said to her mother, “For what should I ask?” And she said, “The head of John the Baptist.” 25 And she came in immediately with haste to the king and asked, saying, “I want you to give me at once the head of John the Baptist on a platter.” 26 And the king was exceedingly sorry, but because of his oaths and his guests he did not want to break his word to her. 27 And immediately the king sent an executioner with orders to bring John’se head. He went and beheaded him in the prison 28 and brought his head on a platter and gave it to the girl, and the girl gave it to her mother. 29 When his disciples heard of it, they came and took his body and laid it in a tomb.

Mark 6:22f and Mark 15:34 seem to be connected in terms of content through Mark 10:37ff. The request of James and John in Mark 10:37 is comparable to the offer that Herod makes to Salome but Jesus' answer refers to the crucifixion scene, in which the words of David are then shouted.

Mark 6:22f	And the king said the to the girl, “Ask me whatever you wish, and I will give to you.” And he swore to her, “Whatever you might ask me, I will give you, up to half of my kingdom.”
Mark 10:37ff	37 And they said to him, “Grant us to sit, one at your right hand and one at your left, in your glory.” 38 Jesus said to them, “You do not know what you are asking. Are you able to drink the cup that I drink, or to be baptized with the baptism with which I am baptized?” 39 And they said to him, “We are able.” And Jesus said to them, “The cup that I drink you will drink, and with the baptism with which I am baptized, you will be baptized, 40 but to sit at my right hand or at my left is not mine to grant, but it is for those for whom it has been prepared.”
Mark 15:34	And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?” Which is translated, “My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?

JW:
"Mark" always reminds me of Baruch Lee's maxim, "Minimum effort, maximum force." So many themes tied together, so little words. Like the ending of
Signfelt or Curb. Here Mark.How Much Ironic Contrast,Transfer&Reversal Did He kraM?:

1) I think the main intended takeaWay (so to speak) as usual is discrediting the Disciples. In the offending chiasm, the disciples are going through the emotionless motions of The Teaching & Healing Ministry. In the key inside, the Literary King expresses belief in resurrection and proclaims the risen JtB while the disciples never believe in resurrection (even though they personally witnessed multiples).

2) Next, continuing with resurrection themes, Salome, the most important historical character in the story (which is commonly referred to as The Dance of Salome) is not named in the GMark's story here. She is not where she is supposed to be. On the other side (so to speak) she is at Jesus' tomb. Where the historical Salome should not be. Hmmm, where someone should be but is not there (alive or dead). How does that tie to Jesus and the Tomb? Salomone, Solo, Buehler, anyone?

3) Next, salvation. In order to receive God's kingdom one must give away everything because only God can give you God's Kingdom. In contrast, in order to give an earthly Kingdom, or any part thereof, one must first be a King. One of the reasons here it's "King" Herod. (and in order to believe that any of this is actually history one must first, above all else, be a sheep).

4) Regarding what KK has identified here, having the parallel language and especially themes to The Jewish Bible is the Pauline theology that the Jesus story was already in The Jewish Bible.

5) The whole Herod feast illustrates Paul's list of deadly sins.


Joseph

The New Porphyry