ἀνασταυροῦντας in Hebrews 6:6

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Giuseppe
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ἀνασταυροῦντας in Hebrews 6:6

Post by Giuseppe »

ἀνασταυροῦντας in Hebrews 6:6 is translated wrongly as:

If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God again, and put him to an open shame.

...when really it should be translated:

If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify up to themselves the Son of God , and put him to an open shame.

ἀνα means "up", not "again".

Hence why did the author point out the "crucifixion above"?
Did he mean above, in heaven ?
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Re: ἀνασταυροῦντας in Hebrews 6:6

Post by Peter Kirby »

Giuseppe wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2024 7:01 am ἀνα means ... not "again".
IMO that's not a reliable claim about the prefix.

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/ana-

https://www.etymonline.com/word/ana-

These aren't perfect sources, but I have stuff to do today and the OP provided no sources.

I recommend reconsidering the premise, not just looking for sources to back up what whatever was assumed.
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Re: ἀνασταυροῦντας in Hebrews 6:6

Post by robert j »

Giuseppe wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2024 7:01 am ἀνασταυροῦντας in Hebrews 6:6 is translated wrongly as:

If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God again, and put him to an open shame.

...when really it should be translated:

If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify up to themselves the Son of God , and put him to an open shame.

ἀνα means "up", not "again".

Hence why did the author point out the "crucifixion above"?
Did he mean above, in heaven ?
Nice try but no cigar.

This is a more literal translation ---

… and then having fallen away--to restore them again to repentance, crucifying (ἀνασταυροῦντας) in themselves the Son of God and subjecting Him to open shame. (Hebrews 6:6, Berean Literal Bible)

The crucify “again” is an interpretive addition by some translators.


The term with the prefix ana- was used in pre-xian times for suspending or attaching a body to a stake or wooden instrument. Josephus uses the term in similar fashion as shown in these two examples from here ---

https://www.academia.edu/9929914/Hangin ... ea_Scrolls

About the story in Ester in the LXX --

Because of his jealousy, Haman‘s wife advises him to have a tall tree (ξύλον) cut down and then request the king “to crucify [ἀνασταυρῶσαι] Mordecai” (A.J. 11.246). [p.7 in the link]

And about the story of Saul’s body having been attached to the wall in Beth-shan from 1 Samuel ---

It is again interesting to note Josephus‘s use of the word ἀνασταυρόω. It should also be noted that according to Josephus, the men of Jabesh-Gilead “were horrified at the thought of leaving (the bodies of Saul and his sons) unburied” (A.J. 6.375). [p.6 in the link]

In these stories, the “crucifixions” took place on earth --- not in a celestial realm.
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Giuseppe
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Re: ἀνασταυροῦντας in Hebrews 6:6

Post by Giuseppe »

robert j wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2024 9:20 am

In these stories, the “crucifixions” took place on earth --- not in a celestial realm.
What escapes to your attention is that the 'rulers of this age' are demons and only demons, a reading corroborated even by the late Ascension of Isaiah (where, despite of the interpolated earthly context, the killers continue to be demons and only demons).

Therefore it is not the earthly context of the OT stories that dictated an earthly context on 1 Corinthians 2:6-8, but rather the contrary: the self-evident assumption of demons in 1 Corinthians 2:6-8 dictated the reading of the OT stories as these quoted by you above.

The demons crucify directly their victim only in heaven.
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Re: ἀνασταυροῦντας in Hebrews 6:6

Post by robert j »

Giuseppe wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2024 9:27 am
robert j wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2024 9:20 am

In these stories, the “crucifixions” took place on earth --- not in a celestial realm.
What escapes to your attention is that the 'rulers of this age' are demons and only demons, a reading corroborated even by the late Ascension of Isaiah (where, despite of the interpolated earthly context, the killers continue to be demons and only demons).

Therefore it is not the earthly context of the OT stories that dictated an earthly context on 1 Corinthians 2:6-8, but rather the contrary: the self-evident assumption of demons in 1 Corinthians 2:6-8 dictated the reading of the OT stories as these quoted by you above.

The demons crucify directly their victim only in heaven.
As you well know, I don't agree with that interpretation. But I have neither the time nor the interest to delve into that now. So, carry-on.
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Giuseppe
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Re: ἀνασταυροῦντας in Hebrews 6:6

Post by Giuseppe »

robert j wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2024 9:33 am

As you well know, I have long disagreed with that interpretation. But I have neither the time nor the interest to delve into that now. So, carry-on.
you have just removed the my same words from the my mouth.
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Re: ἀνασταυροῦντας in Hebrews 6:6

Post by MrMacSon »

robert j wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2024 9:20 am
The term with the prefix ana- was used in pre-xian times for suspending or attaching a body to a stake or wooden instrument. Josephus uses the term in similar fashion as shown in these two examples from here ---

https://www.academia.edu/9929914/Hangin ... ea_Scrolls

About the story in Ester in the LXX --

Because of his jealousy, Haman‘s wife advises him to have a tall tree (ξύλον) cut down and then request the king “to crucify [ἀνασταυρῶσαι] Mordecai” (A.J. 11.246). [p.7 in the link]

And about the story of Saul’s body having been attached to the wall in Beth-shan from 1 Samuel ---

It is again interesting to note Josephus‘s use of the word ἀνασταυρόω. It should also be noted that according to Josephus, the men of Jabesh-Gilead “were horrified at the thought of leaving (the bodies of Saul and his sons) unburied” (A.J. 6.375). [p.6 in the link]

This is interesting. So many words (and concepts they reflect) like this used in the NT are also used in Josephus; often in the context of Josephus reflecting on Hebrew biblical texts
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