What was Paul?

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
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Clive
Posts: 1197
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2014 2:20 pm

What was Paul?

Post by Clive »

Philippians 3:4-6English Standard Version (ESV)

4 though I myself have reason for confidence in the flesh also. If anyone else thinks he has reason for confidence in the flesh, I have more: 5 circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the law, a Pharisee; 6 as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to righteousness under the law,[a] blameless
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1153&start=110
Zealots believed in the overthrow of the Roman Empire. They would not tolerate pagan idols and practices in their land. God would bring about the Kingdom with their help.

Essenes believed in withdrawing from the corrupt Temple system and the Empire. They would live holy lives in an alternative world until God brought about the Kingdom without their help.

Pharisees believed in radical personal holiness. They believed in internalizing their religious law, and that God would give punishment and reward in the afterlife.

Sadducees believed in the establishment. They made peace with Rome and focused on religious ritual. They believed divine punishment and reward happen in this life
https://davebarnhart.wordpress.com/2012 ... sadducees/

No idea if this is a reasonable summary of the groups in Judaism at the time, but could Paul have been a Zealot and a Pharisee? And what is this "church"?
"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
Huon
Posts: 118
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:21 am

Re: What was Paul?

Post by Huon »

Acts 7 NIV
The Stoning of Stephen
54When they heard this, they were furious and gnashed their teeth at him. 55But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. 56"Look," he said, "I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God."
57At this they covered their ears and, yelling at the top of their voices, they all rushed at him, 58dragged him out of the city and began to stone him. Meanwhile, the witnesses laid their clothes at the feet of a young man named Saul.
59While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit." 60Then he fell on his knees and cried out, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them." When he had said this, he fell asleep.
Acts 8 NIV
And Saul approved of their killing him.
The Church Persecuted and Scattered
On that day a great persecution broke out against the church in Jerusalem, and all except the apostles were scattered throughout Judea and Samaria. 2 Godly men buried Stephen and mourned deeply for him. 3 But Saul began to destroy the church. Going from house to house, he dragged off both men and women and put them in prison.
Huon
Posts: 118
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:21 am

Re: What was Paul?

Post by Huon »

There's a website Paul on Paul (http://www.paulonpaul.org/), with a lot of useful links and discussion.

I would recommend Hyam Maccoby's The Mythmaker : Paul and the Invention of Christianity. Paul claims to be a Pharisee, but Hyam Maccoby has cast doubt on that. Maccoby thinks that Paul was a Sadducee, part of the Temple police force, just another thug.
Last edited by Huon on Tue Dec 16, 2014 10:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
outhouse
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Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:48 pm

Re: What was Paul?

Post by outhouse »

Clive wrote: No idea if this is a reasonable summary of the groups in Judaism at the time
Not really.

but could Paul have been a Zealot and a Pharisee?
Yes, but not in that context.

Pharisees were a divided and very diverse group within itself. Many mirrored Zealots pious view's. They were also divided on Hellenistic Judaism and Israelite Judaism.

And what is this "church"?
Church is the wrong word. Assembly is more correct.
outhouse
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Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:48 pm

Re: What was Paul?

Post by outhouse »

Huon wrote: I would recommend Hyam Maccoby's The Mythmaker

.
Hyam is not well accepted.

Many of his views I believe are spot on, but his arrow was off so bad his negative reviews are well founded.
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