The Torah ordained through angels

[dabber]

In Galatians 3:19 Paul says the Law was given through angels and trusted through a mediator. The mediator I guess is Moses. Who are the angels?

Do you think these could be the archons of the lower celestial realms? The rulers of this material world?

I'm thinking this is a smoking gun? Is there another explanation?

Earlier same chapter says those who rely on the law are under a curse, and Christ has redeemed us from this curse.

Roms 5:20 the law was brought in so sin could increase? Wow!

But he says tye law not opposed to promises of God. So could he mean God gave a law which was a curse to angels who gave it to Moses. That doesn't make sense to me.

Paul didnt say who these angels were but I'm guessing could be the archons of this aeon/rulers of this age.

Thanks

[DCHindley]

In Galatians 3:19 Paul says the Law was given through angels and trusted through a mediator. The mediator I guess is Moses. Who are the angels?

Do you think these could be the archons of the lower celestial realms? The rulers of this material world?

I'm thinking this is a smoking gun? Is there another explanation?

Earlier same chapter says those who rely on the law are under a curse, and Christ has redeemed us from this curse.

Roms 5:20 the law was brought in so sin could increase? Wow!

But he says tye law not opposed to promises of God. So could he mean God gave a law which was a curse to angels who gave it to Moses. That doesn't make sense to me.

Paul didnt say who these angels were but I'm guessing could be the archons of this aeon/rulers of this age.

This whole section which includes Gal 3:19 is difficult to decipher. The subject of what or who these intermediaries were is not something I seem to have discussed on this forum, but I believe that the intermediary was Moses himself although I am happy to be wrong about that.

Over the years, and a lot of analysis, I concluded that in Gal 3:1-5:1 constitutes an argument presented by the original writer, and comments added by another that introduced high christological concepts. In other words, there were actually two narratives going on, an original one and a commentary where high christology is introduced into the original account to modify the original.

Here it the whole thing as a table.

"Paul's" narrative = Gentiles can become children of God via faith and do not have to convert to Judaism to receive God's promises to Abraham. Isaac is the child of promise. Hagar was the child of human weakness. Relish in the promise.	Counter Narrative of a redactor = Judaism is basically slavery as taught by the history of its people. Judeans think they are children of promise through Sarah, but prove themselves to be children of ther slave woman Hagar, as their destiny included slavery (in the Judean rebellion). The seed of Abraham to whom the promises were made was really Christ, and so the faith in the promise was really faith in Christ.
3:1a O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you,
	3:1b before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified?
	3:2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law, or by hearing with faith?
	3:3 Are you so foolish? Having begun with the Spirit, are you now ending with the flesh?
	3:4 Did you experience so many things in vain? -- if it really is in vain.
3:5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith?	3:5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith?
3:6 Thus Abraham "believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness." (Gen 15:6)
3:7 So you see that it is men of faith who are the sons of Abraham.
3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the good news beforehand to Abraham, saying, "In you shall all the nations be blessed." (Gen 12:3)
3:9 So then, those who are men of faith are blessed with Abraham who had faith.
3:10 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed be every one who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, and do them." (Deu 27:26)
3:11 Now it is evident that no man is justified before God by the law; for "He who through faith is righteous shall live"; (Hab 2:4)
3:12 but the law does not rest on faith, for "He who does them shall live by them." (Lev 18:5)
	3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us -- for it is written, "Cursed be every one who hangs on a tree" -- (Deu 21:23)
3:14a that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles,
	3:14b in *Christ Jesus*
3:14c that the *promise*
	3:14d of the Spirit
3:14e we might receive through faith.
3:15 To give a human example, brethren: no one annuls even a man's will, or adds to it, once it has been ratified.
3:16a Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring.
	3:16b It does not say, "And to offsprings (pl)," referring to many; but, referring to one, "And to your offspring (sg)," (Gen 12:7; 13:15; 17:7; 24:7) which is Christ.
3:17a This is what I mean: Given a covenant previously ratified by *God,*
3:17b then that which came four hundred and thirty years (Exo 12:40) afterward, the Law, does not annul it so as to make the promise void.
3:18 For if the inheritance is by the law, it is no longer by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.
3:19 Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions,
	3:19b till the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made;
3:19c and it was ordained by angels through an intermediary.
3:20 Now an intermediary implies more than one; but God is one.
3:21 Is the law then against the promises *of God*?
3:21b Certainly not; for if a law had been given which could make alive, then righteousness would indeed be by the law.
3:22a But the scripture consigned all things to sin, that the promise
	3:22b out of faith in Jesus Christ
3:22c might be given to those who believe.
	3:23 Now before faith came, we were confined under the law, kept under restraint until faith should be revealed.
	3:24 So that the law was our custodian until Christ came, that we might be justified by faith.
	3:25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a custodian;
	3:26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.
	3:27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
	3:28 There is neither Judean nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
	3:29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.
4:1 I mean that the heir, as long as he is a child, is no better than a slave, though he is the owner of all the estate;
4:2 but he is under guardians and trustees until the date set by the father.
4:3 So with us; when we were children, we were slaves to the elemental spirits of the universe.
4:4a But when the time had fully come, God sent forth
	4:4b his Son, born of woman, born under the law,
	4:5 to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons.
	4:6a And because you are sons,
4:6b God sent forth [dittograph from vs 4a?]
4:6c the Spirit
	4:6d of his Son
4:6e into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"
4:7a So you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son then an heir
	4:7b *through God*.
	4:8 Formerly, when you did not know God, you were in bondage to beings that by nature are no gods; (2 Chr 37:19; Isa 13:9; Jer 2:11)
	4:9 but now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and beggarly elemental spirits, whose slaves you want to be once more?
	4:10 You observe days, and months, and seasons, and years!
	4:11 I am afraid I have labored over you in vain.
	4:12 Brethren, I beseech you, become as I am, for I also have become as you are. You did me no wrong;
	4:13 you know it was because of a bodily ailment that I preached the good news to you at first;
	4:14 and *you were tested*, by (or despite) my fleshly condition, you did not ignore or reject me, but you received me as an angel of God, as Christ Jesus.
	4:15 What has become of the satisfaction you felt? For I bear you witness that, if possible, you would have plucked out your eyes and given them to me.
	4:16 Have I then become your enemy by telling you the truth?
	4:17 They make much of you, but for no good purpose; they want to shut you out, that you may make much of them.
	4:18 For a good purpose it is always good to be made much of, and not only when I am present with you.
	4:19 My little children, with whom I am again in travail until Christ be formed in you!
4:20 I could wish to be present with you now and to change my tone, for I am perplexed about you.
4:21 Tell me, you who desire to be under law, do you not hear the law?
4:22a For it is written that Abraham had two sons,
4:22b one by a slave (Gen 16:15)
4:22c and one by a free woman (Gen 21:2).
4:23a But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh,
4:23b the son of the free woman through promise.
	4:24a Now this is an allegory: these women are two covenants.
	4:24b One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery;
	4:24c she is Hagar.
	4:25a the
	4:25b *but Hagar (represents) Sinai*
	4:25c mountain in Arabia;
	4:25d she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children.
	4:26 But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother.
	4:27 For it is written, "Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear; break forth and shout, you who are not in travail; for the children of the desolate one are many more than the children of her that is married" (Isa 54:1).
4:28 *Now we, brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise.*
	4:29 But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now.
	4:30 But what does the scripture say? "Cast out the slave and her son; for the son of the slave shall not inherit with the son (Gen 21:10) of the free woman."
	4:31 So, brethren, we are not children of the slave but of the free woman.
	5:1 *For freedom Christ has set us free; stand fast therefore,* and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.

Sorry about the length, but I felt that it was important to examine the subject in context. I do associate the concept of the Law being introduced by an intermediary as part of the original writer's contribution. Note that the original author and the commentator are both pretty familiar with the LXX and Old Greek translations of Law & Prophets.

Hopefully, this table clearly and unmistakably presents the material as two competing narratives. I do not believe that the Marcionite original hypothesis is compatible with this model, or how later heresiologists (Irenaeus, Tertullian) described Marcion's editorial agenda, as it is kind of a jumble with no one apparently recognizing the competing narratives.

I am aware that there is critical speculation that 3:19 refers to some sort of angelic intermediary, the subject usually coming up with relation to Merkabah mystic speculations (throne mysticism, where a sage mentally rises through the heavens and confronts numerous challenges which he must successfully bypass in order to worship with the angelic choir at the foot of God's throne. That movement, possibly around in 1st century CE, developed its own literature, only several hundred years after then.

The subject of the nature of the "rulers of this age" (1 Cor 2:6,8) has come up, though. My own contribution, examining this passage in a flat format rather than a table, can be found here:

viewtopic.php?p=117006#p117006

DCH

[Giuseppe]

Paul didnt say who these angels were but I'm guessing could be the archons of this aeon/rulers of this age.

simple and clear.

I agree.

Removing these passages from Paul is what Joseph Turmel and Alfred Loisy did substantially, in order to save a historical Jesus from the threat represented by that mysticism. But then the problem arises about what has to be saved about a historical Paul, and a new threat arises (the concrete possibility that everything is based on a proto-Gospel, as argued by Bruno Bauer the first time).

[dabber]

Thanks guys for replies, and DCH for link to earlier thread.

[MrMacSon]

The verses preceding Gal 3:19 are about a covenant and the seed [offspring] of Abraham (and before that, there was commentary about the Law).

v.16 ends, "and to the seed of you who is Christ" - 'Καὶ τῷ σπέρματί σου ὅς ἐστιν Χριστός'

v.17 starts, "This I now say [is the] covenant confirmed [beforehand] by God"

The Greek of the end of v.17 is hard to follow, talking about the law not annulling nor nullifying 'the promise'

v.18 says something like, "for by the law the inheritance is no longer a promise,* but to Abraham a promise has been granted by God"

• ('was never a promise'(?))

v.19 starts with the question, "Why then the Law?" Then there's reference to transgressions added and "the seed to whom promise has been made 'having been arranged' - διαταγεὶς - through messengers/envoys via the hand of a mediator (μεσίτου)"

v.20 essentially says, "mediators (μεσίτης) is not one but God is one"

v.21 starts, "the Law is contrary to the promise of God"


The Greek word translated as mediator - μεσίτου - only occurs in the NT in the singular twice: in Gal 1:19 and Hebrews 12:24. The plural, μεσίτης, occurs four times: in Gal 1:20, in Hebrews 8:16 and 9:15; and in 1 Timothy 2:5.

In Hebrews 12:24, as μεσίτῃ, it is in reference to Jesus as the mediator of a new covenant.

In the two Hebrews passages it is also in reference to a new/better covenant. And in 1 Tim 2:5 it is wrt one mediator between God and men: Christ Jesus.


I think most if not all of Galatians 3 is bait-and-switch rhetoric

• v.22 has reference to promise by faith
  v.23: "now comes the faith; under the Law we were 'held in captivity' having been locked up until faith was revealed"
  v.24: "by faith we might be justified"
  v.26: "you are sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus"
  v.27: "into Christ you were baptized; Christ you have put on"
  v.28: "neither Jew nor Greek, neither slave nor free, neither male and female, all of you are one in Christ Jesus"
  v.29: "if you are Christ's then you are Abraham's seed according to 'the promise' - ἐπαγγελίαν* - of the heirs (κληρονόμοι)"
  
  * notably similar in the Greek to εὐαγγέλιον

[GakuseiDon]

In Galatians 3:19 Paul says the Law was given through angels and trusted through a mediator. The mediator I guess is Moses. Who are the angels?

Do you think these could be the archons of the lower celestial realms? The rulers of this material world?

I don't see it personally, based on what I've read of ancient writings in English. Those angels in Gal 3:19 were acting according to God's will, conveying messages from God to humans and vice versa. The rulers of the material world tend to be described in less heavenly terms: ignorant, seeking power and worship from humans. They may well be angels, but their description tends to trend towards not being submissive to the will of God.

[MrMacSon]

ἀγγέλων here are lower level messengers or envoys

τὸ σπέρμα ᾧ ἐπήγγελται διαταγεὶς δι’ ἀγγέλων ἐν* χειρὶ μεσίτου

---

the seed to whom promise has been prescribed through 'angels' by* a mediator's/agent's hand

* or, perhaps, 'during the time of'

[DCHindley]

ἀγγέλων here are lower level messengers or envoys

τὸ σπέρμα ᾧ ἐπήγγελται διαταγεὶς δι’ ἀγγέλων ἐν* χειρὶ μεσίτου

---

the seed to whom promise has been prescribed through 'angels' by* a mediator's/agent's hand

* or, perhaps, 'during the time of'

Using a concordant style interlinear I have found helpful* the word for word works out as follows. This will be formatted according to my analysis already posted:

Original letter:

3.19a	Τί	οὖν	ὁ	νόμος;	τῶν	παραβάσεων	χάριν	προσετέθη,
3.19a	Why	therefore	the	law?	Of the	transgressions,	thanks	it was put forward

Followed by an interpolation to replace a promise that Abram would have many physical offspring, with the spiritual children (expanded on elsewhere in Galatians) to whom the promise really (in their minds) belonged, the gentiles who followed Jesus and recognized him as a divinely elected savior of all mankind:

3.19b	ἄχρις	οὗ	ἔλθῃ	τὸ	σπέρμα	ᾧ	ἐπήγγελται
3.19b	until	likely	should come	the	seed(sg)	to-whom	it-has-been-promised

Then back to original letter, talking abut faith in god's promise to Abram

3.19c	διαταγεὶς	δι’	ἀγγέλων	ἐν*	χειρὶ	μεσίτου
3.19c	having-been-set-through-orderly	through	angels(pl)	in/by	hand	of-mediator(sg)

Sounds to me like those translations that render it something like "3:19c and it was ordained by angels through an intermediary" are closer to capturing the original meaning.

I get that the mediator is likely Moses (Exodus 19:6-9), but who are these angels who ordain the law to begin with, that apparently dictated it to Moses to hand to the people? God appointed a heavenly committee to come up with suitable format and substance, and find a front man to market it, like some modern CEO?

Just seems weird.

DCH

*History lesson: It is published by the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society (yes, the JWs) as Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures. (1948). It was based on Westcott & Hort's 1881 Greek edition, and adopted a concordant method for translating words using consistent basic meanings. The Interlinear word for word is actually pretty consistent in rendering Greek words with same English word(s), and if you know or can learn some Greek grammar, the thing serves well. It comes with the JW's own English translation, the New World Translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures (1969), in a side column to right. They thought it would sell the accuracy of their own 1969 translation by having it next to the Greek English Interlinear, but to be honest, I did not like their own translation at all, and never refer to it.

[dabber]

I don't see it personally, based on what I've read of ancient writings in English. Those angels in Gal 3:19 were acting according to God's will, conveying messages from God to humans and vice versa. The rulers of the material world tend to be described in less heavenly terms: ignorant, seeking power and worship from humans. They may well be angels, but their description tends to trend towards not being submissive to the will of God.

Thanks both. Yes thinking about it, you're right.