Serapis-Christian links overlays??

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DCHindley
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Re: Serapis-Christian links overlays??

Post by DCHindley »

andrewcriddle wrote:The mention of Serapis instead of Bacchus/Dionysus here seems unique to Julian's version.
Julian the Emperor, Hymn to King Helios Dedicated to Sallust, Oration IV, 136a wrote:Εἷς Ζεύς, εἷς Ἀίδης, εἷς Ἥλιός ἐστι Σάραπις
This sort of construction reminds me of Ephesians 4:5:

one Lord, one faith, one baptism (εἷς κύριος, μία πίστις, ἓν βάπτισμα)

Obviously there are differences (three different words for "one") but there is a thematic connection between lord=faith=baptism.

Regardless, if he considers Serapis the supreme manifestation of the godhead (like A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada thinks of Krishna), there could be some truth to the material from the Historia Augusta in which he says Christians and Jews all actually worshipped Serapis.

DCH
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MrMacSon
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Re: Serapis-Christian links overlays??

Post by MrMacSon »

DCHindley wrote: ... there could be some truth to the material from the Historia Augusta in which he says Christians and Jews all actually worshipped Serapis.
Perhaps not all; and, from what I've gleaned, it would depend on the time period and where they were ie. what post-city (some had a greater % who followed Serapis than others)

Who is "he"?
Last edited by MrMacSon on Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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DCHindley
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Re: Serapis-Christian links overlays??

Post by DCHindley »

MrMacSon wrote:
DCHindley wrote: ... there could be some truth to the material from the Historia Augusta in which he says Christians and Jews all actually worshipped Serapis.
Perhaps not all, and from what I've gleaned, it would depend on the time period and where they were ie. what post-city (some had a greater % who followed Serapis than others)

Who is "he"?
Sorry, I meant Hadrian. All the sensational revelations have taken my breath away and now I am near faintin .... zzzzzzz :yawn:

DCH
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MrMacSon
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Re: Serapis-Christian links overlays??

Post by MrMacSon »

DCHindley wrote:
andrewcriddle wrote:The mention of Serapis instead of Bacchus/Dionysus here seems unique to Julian's version.
Julian the Emperor, Hymn to King Helios Dedicated to Sallust, Oration IV, 136a wrote: .
  • Εἷς Ζεύς, εἷς Ἀίδης, εἷς Ἥλιός ἐστι Σάραπις
This sort of construction reminds me of Ephesians 4:5:
  • one Lord, one faith, one baptism (εἷς κύριος, μία πίστις, ἓν βάπτισμα)
Obviously there are differences (three different words for "one") but there is a thematic connection between lord=faith=baptism.

Regardless, if [Hadrian] considers Serapis the supreme manifestation of the godhead ... there could be some truth to the material from the Historia Augusta in which he says Christians and Jews ... actually worshipped Serapis.

DCH
Cheers. A 'thematic connection between lord=faith=baptism' is interesting, especially as it seems to transcend from one faith to another.
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Leucius Charinus
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Re: Serapis-Christian links overlays??

Post by Leucius Charinus »

andrewcriddle wrote:
Leucius Charinus wrote:That's where he came from. As I mentioned there I see Julian as a stepping stone back to the earlier epoch. He was an extremely academic person and has stuff to say about the ancient world even if he didn't like the Galilaeans.

It seems he reserves a place for Serapis. "One Jove, one Pluto, one Sun is Serapis." This sounds like a pagan Holy Trinity.

Some study of this text might prove rewarding.



LC
It is a version of an orphic hymn found in other sources e.g. Pseudo-Justin Address to the Greeks
There is one Zeus alone, one sun, one hell,
One Bacchus; and in all things but one God;
with Bacchus/Dionysus instead of Serapis.
and Macrobius Saturnalia
Εἷς Ζεὺς, εἷς Ἅιδης, εἷς Ἥλιος, εἷς Διόνυσος.
The mention of Serapis instead of Bacchus/Dionysus here seems unique to Julian's version.
Thanks Andrew.

These literary references seem to support two related contentions:

1) The notion and existence of a "pagan monotheism" ...... http://wildhunt.org/tag/one-god-pagan-m ... man-empire
2) The notion and existence of a "pagan holy trinity"



LC
A "cobbler of fables" [Augustine]; "Leucius is the disciple of the devil" [Decretum Gelasianum]; and his books "should be utterly swept away and burned" [Pope Leo I]; they are the "source and mother of all heresy" [Photius]
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MrMacSon
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Re: Serapis-Christian links overlays??

Post by MrMacSon »

from Hadrian and the Christians, edited by Marco Rizzi; p 129.
Rizzi p 129 serapis.JPG
Rizzi p 129 serapis.JPG (57.8 KiB) Viewed 9504 times
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MrMacSon
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Re: Serapis-Christian links overlays??

Post by MrMacSon »

.
Hadrian and the Christians pp 129-31
  • Rizzi earliest churches 1 p 129.JPG
    Rizzi earliest churches 1 p 129.JPG (77.75 KiB) Viewed 9493 times
    Rizzi earliest churches 2 p 130.JPG
    Rizzi earliest churches 2 p 130.JPG (97.29 KiB) Viewed 9493 times
    Rizzi earliest churches 3 p 131a.JPG
    Rizzi earliest churches 3 p 131a.JPG (82.07 KiB) Viewed 9493 times
andrewcriddle
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Re: Serapis-Christian links overlays??

Post by andrewcriddle »

DCHindley wrote:
andrewcriddle wrote:The mention of Serapis instead of Bacchus/Dionysus here seems unique to Julian's version.
Julian the Emperor, Hymn to King Helios Dedicated to Sallust, Oration IV, 136a wrote:Εἷς Ζεύς, εἷς Ἀίδης, εἷς Ἥλιός ἐστι Σάραπις
This sort of construction reminds me of Ephesians 4:5:

one Lord, one faith, one baptism (εἷς κύριος, μία πίστις, ἓν βάπτισμα)

Obviously there are differences (three different words for "one") but there is a thematic connection between lord=faith=baptism.

Regardless, if he considers Serapis the supreme manifestation of the godhead (like A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada thinks of Krishna), there could be some truth to the material from the Historia Augusta in which he says Christians and Jews all actually worshipped Serapis.

DCH
It is an interesting possibility that the claim about Hadrian in the Historia Augusta is influenced by Julian.

Andrew Criddle
Clive
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Re: Serapis-Christian links overlays??

Post by Clive »

Ephesians 4:5-6King James Version (KJV)

5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=KJV

Isn't this a common Greek rhetorical construction? I thought similar statements were common. And Ephesians here does not look particularly xian, but does feel as if it is referencing the true gods.
"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
Clive
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Re: Serapis-Christian links overlays??

Post by Clive »

The rule of three is a writing principle that suggests that things that come in threes are inherently funnier, more satisfying, or more effective than other numbers of things.[citation needed] The reader or audience of this form of text is also more likely to consume information if it is written in groups of threes. From slogans ("Go, fight, win!") to films, many things are structured in threes. Examples include The Three Stooges, Three Little Pigs, Three Billy Goats Gruff, Goldilocks and the Three Bears and the Three Musketeers.

A series of three often creates a progression in which the tension is created, built up, and finally released. Similarly, adjectives are often grouped in threes to emphasize an idea.

The Latin phrase, "omne trium perfectum" (everything that comes in threes is perfect, or, every set of three is complete) conveys the same idea as the rule of three.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_three_(writing)
"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
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