Speaking in tongues and writing

[Clive]

In other threads, reference has been made (to paraphrase) to personal experiences of the Holy Spirit. (Welcome by the way!)

I understand one of the key evidences of this is said to be a gift of the spirit, speaking in tongues. Singing in the spirit is another variation.

Some interesting things have been said about this phenomenon.

In 1972, William J. Samarin, a linguist from the University of Toronto, published a thorough assessment of Pentecostal glossolalia that became a classic work on its linguistic characteristics.[6] His assessment was based on a large sample of glossolalia recorded in public and private Christian meetings in Italy, The Netherlands, Jamaica, Canada and the USA over the course of five years; his wide range included the Puerto Ricans of the Bronx, the Snake Handlers of the Appalachians and the Russian Molokan in Los Angeles.

Samarin found that glossolalic speech does resemble human language in some respects. The speaker uses accent, rhythm, intonation and pauses to break up the speech into distinct units. Each unit is itself made up of syllables, the syllables being formed from consonants and vowels taken from a language known to the speaker:

It is verbal behaviour that consists of using a certain number of consonants and vowels[...]in a limited number of syllables that in turn are organized into larger units that are taken apart and rearranged pseudogrammatically[...]with variations in pitch, volume, speed and intensity.[7]

[Glossolalia] consists of strings of syllables, made up of sounds taken from all those that the speaker knows, put together more or less haphazardly but emerging nevertheless as word-like and sentence-like units because of realistic, language-like rhythm and melody.[8]

That the sounds are taken from the set of sounds already known to the speaker is confirmed by others. Felicitas Goodman, a psychological anthropologist and linguist, also found that the speech of glossolalists reflected the patterns of speech of the speaker's native language.[9]

Samarin found that the resemblance to human language was merely on the surface and so concluded that glossolalia is "only a facade of language".[10] He reached this conclusion because the syllable string did not form words, the stream of speech was not internally organized, and – most importantly of all – there was no systematic relationship between units of speech and concepts. Humans use language to communicate but glossolalia does not. Therefore he concluded that glossolalia is not "a specimen of human language because it is neither internally organized nor systematically related to the world man perceives".[10] On the basis of his linguistic analysis, Samarin defined Pentecostal glossolalia as "meaningless but phonologically structured human utterance, believed by the speaker to be a real language but bearing no systematic resemblance to any natural language, living or dead".[11]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossolalia

BBC History of ideas discussed the effects of a new fangled invention - writing, and touched on the subject of how technologies make societies and us as individuals. We will soon be wired. We are all very used to life enhancement devices like glasses and dentures, knives and forks, and cooking, why not other prosthetics to enable?

Is technology making us less human? Writer, Tom Chatfield is an enthusiastic downloader of the latest apps, an early adopter of anything small and shiny that promises to smooth his path through life. But Tom can't help feeling a little anxious about the hold that new technology has on his life.

Plato felt much the same, concerned that the new- fangled concept of writing might destroy the ability of the Ancient Greeks to memorise vast swathes of human knowledge. Do car sat-navs destroy our innate sense of direction? Do search engines displace our store of general knowledge?

With the help of the Economist's Digital Editor, Tom Standage and cybernetics expert, Kevin Warwick, Tom looks toward a future when the communication and computing power of our smartphones is inserted directly into our nervous systems. With superfast thought processes and a battery of new senses will we feel upgraded or out of control, superhuman or inhuman?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05077kg

I wonder if Christianity made writing into a god - and the word was god - and used speaking in tongues as a means to refer back to the old spoken world but in a transformed, "holy" way?

[Leucius Charinus]

I wonder if Christianity made writing into a god - and the word was god - and used speaking in tongues as a means to refer back to the old spoken world but in a transformed, "holy" way?

WRITING: The evidence tells us that the early Christians preferred the codex over the roll. They were high technology dudes.

SPEAKING IN TONGUES: All this was supposed to be the direct result of the historical outpouring of the Holy Spirit. (See "Spirit Possession" thread)





LC

[Peter Kirby]

WRITING: The evidence tells us that the early Christians preferred the codex over the roll. They were high technology dudes.

Might be high tech but it's also low culture. The roll was preferred, especially in the Jewish tradition but also in some non-Jewish/Christian genres, as the only fitting choice for sacred or certain literary works. In other words, it's very "middle class" (second 1%, not top 1%).

[neilgodfrey]

Clement of Alexandria and our good friend Papias both said that they preferred the message delivered orally to the one passed on in writing. It was supposedly more meaningful via orality, iirc. And then we see that Matthew and Luke and probably John felt quite at liberty to change the written words of previous accounts. Further, Paul said the letter kills by comparison with the spirit.

Interesting question that I've wondered about, too, but I think the above counts against any early reverence for the message in the form of the written word.

[outhouse]

Clement of Alexandria and our good friend Papias both said that they preferred the message delivered orally to the one passed on in writing. It was supposedly more meaningful via orality, iirc. And then we see that Matthew and Luke and probably John felt quite at liberty to change the written words of previous accounts. Further, Paul said the letter kills by comparison with the spirit.

Interesting question that I've wondered about, too, but I think the above counts against any early reverence for the message in the form of the written word.

I think ive read older Carrier, where he to states they placed more importance on oral traditions over, written.

Its what Ive followed regardless, just due to these poor illiterate cultures.

[Clive]

poor illiterate cultures.

The roll was preferred, especially in the Jewish tradition but also in some non-Jewish/Christian genres, as the only fitting choice for sacred or certain literary works. In other words, it's very "middle class" (second 1%, not top 1%).

Isn't the class of believers important? Wasn't Marcion alleged to be very wealthy?

Paul said the letter kills by comparison with the spirit.

http://philborges.com/enduring-spirit

Many indigenous and tribal people are striving to hold on to their cultural traditions and uniqueness in countries where basic human rights are threatened—from Ethiopia and Kenya to Tibet, and from Mexico to Indonesia. Some are experiencing their first contact with the outside world; some have survived exploitation and repression for years; some whose cultures have been decimated and are attempting a comeback—people trying to hold on to their cultural traditions and identities. We partnered with Amnesty International to create the exhibition and book titled Enduring Spirit celebrating the 50th anniversary of the signing of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.With his stunning portraits and accompanying captions, Borges bridges his subjects' worlds and ours, offering a compelling yet unsentimental portrait of their homelands, their dreams, and the close family and community relationships that sustain their lives. In her introduction, Isabel Allende reflects on the importance of mutual respect for individuals different from ourselves—people who, like those captured by Borges' lens, "possess profound spiritual resources, natural wisdom, and knowledge of their physical surrounding that we have lost."

These portraits of indigenous and tribal people around the world is a quietly beautiful testament to the strength and inherent dignity of the human spirit. Enduring Spirit focuses on individuals upholding their cultural traditions in countries from Ethiopia and Kenya to Tibet, and from Mexico to Indonesia. The book is published in association with Amnesty International to mark the 50th anniversary of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, a document adopted by the United Nations in 1948 that outlines fundamental freedoms for all people.

Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

http://biblehub.com/romans/8-26.htm

I propose that there is more than enough evidence to hypothesise the emergence of new formulations of ancient arguments about life the universe and everything without any need for founder figures, however tangential they may or may not be.

[Clive]

We are into the world of daemons, possession here!

[neilgodfrey]

I propose that there is more than enough evidence to hypothesise the emergence of new formulations of ancient arguments about life the universe and everything without any need for founder figures, however tangential they may or may not be.

Founders need a willing and receptive set of supporters to buy into their vision or they are destined to be loners, eccentrics, flash in the pan would-be achievers.

Founders can only work with ideas they are exposed to. They can reshape things in new ways but their raw material must always be drawn from their cultural world and it must strike the right chord with others in the same environment.

Founders are often very important but as catalysts and facilitators, not true originators.

I'd be interested to know of any clear historical exceptions to this rule.

[Clive]

Isn't that really about for example the differences between horizontal gene transfer and multicellular type transfers?

There is no reason why new ideas should not emerge from various people discussing stuff together, and like Quakers, coming to a common mind.

Maybe we are too used to assumptions about individual inventors, again because we do have a series of individualised assumptions in our society, like the classic king and queen version of history.

[craig benno]

I pray and sing in tongues. Some say its a subjective experience...well yes it is...but then again, so is sex.

The question about tongues and languages is an interesting one. My cousin had cerebral palsy. She couldn't speak - but, she could communicate through a series of grunts, snorts and squeals. She spoke a different language then we did. But, her communication was a valid language. Within a theological framework - where God gives everyone a language and dialect - there is nothing unusual in the Spirit of God, granting a believer, a specific prayer language to pray and sing in. On another note, I have seen twice now, where a preacher was given a gift of speaking in known languages. Once was to an Italian man. Another to a Jewish visitor.