The "spirit possession" explanation for Christian origins

[neilgodfrey]

Stevan Davies in Spirit Possession and the Origin of Christianity argues that Jesus began his career as a spirit possessed healer and exorcist, attracted a following of others susceptible to the same sort of spirit possession (involving "pentecostal" experiences), and that after his death, 50 days after his death to be precise (Acts 2), these followers themselves experienced the same state of possession/alternative consciousness.

Their conclusion was that Jesus must have sent his own gift to them from heaven; therefore Jesus was still alive. He must have risen from the dead. After all, half a day after his body was placed temporarily in a wealthy person's tomb it was no longer found there.

That, I think, in a nutshell is Davies' theory. If anyone who has read the first chapter of his book wants to improve on this outline please do so.

Davies' refers to the famous beginnings of modern pentecostalism initiated by William Seymour.

Coincidentally I have been reading James Hanges who argues something quite similar in relation to Paul. He also draws upon the Seymour history. But the difference with Davies' theory is that the followers of Paul also shared the ecstatic experiences under his leadership, or even preceded Paul with their gift.

My question is this: What instances are there of a spirit possessed charismatic or glossolalist who attracts followers who do not share his gift the whole time they are with him/her but only do so for the first time only after they lose contact?

[DCHindley]

Stevan Davies in Spirit Possession and the Origin of Christianity argues that Jesus began his career as a spirit possessed healer and exorcist, attracted a following of others susceptible to the same sort of spirit possession (involving "pentecostal" experiences), and that after his death, 50 days after his death to be precise (Acts 2), these followers themselves experienced the same state of possession/alternative consciousness.

Is this a revised edition of Jesus the Healer: Possession, Trance, and the Origins of Christianity (1995)?

DCH

[neilgodfrey]

Stevan Davies in Spirit Possession and the Origin of Christianity . . .

Is this a revised edition of Jesus the Healer: Possession, Trance, and the Origins of Christianity (1995)?

DCH

No. It's a collection of essays covering a wider range of material. (Though it's years since I read Jesus the Healer and that may have covered more than I recall now.)

Added 8th Feb --

Yes, it is indeed a republication of Jesus the Healer but with the addition of two chapters on the Odes of Solomon and how they may be interpreted as evidence for the Jewish sect from which Christianity emerged.

[Leucius Charinus]

THE PROBLEM OF ANONYMITY AND PSEUDONYMITY IN CHRISTIAN LITERATURE OF THE FIRST TWO CENTURIES by Aland repeats a mantra in line with the OP.

That mantra is that the authors of the books of the [canonical] NT were "inspired by the Holy Spirit".

I don't accept that argument for THE PROBLEM OF ANONYMITY AND PSEUDONYMITY IN CHRISTIAN LITERATURE OF THE FIRST TWO CENTURIES.

Neither do I accept a "spirit possession" explanation for Christian origins.

I think it had a lot more to do with the "fear of god".

What I think might be important is to provide a background to what people in the Roman Empire of antiquity themselves thought about spirit and spirit possession. To this end you will find the Stoics and the Platonists useful.

What happens when Jesus meets the Greek "daimon" in Matthew?



LC

[Clive]

Davies' refers to the famous beginnings of modern pentecostalism initiated by William Seymour.

Actually, not everything comes from America! I'm sure it goes back further than this - arguably the Quakers were pentecostal - but my great grand parents were closely involved in this!

Evan Roberts 1878-1951 - An Overview of the Welsh Revival of 1904/1905 The REVIVAL of 1904-1905 resulted in over 150,000 people converted and added to churches and chapels in Wales. Lives were TRANSFORMED! Lifestyles were CHANGED! Homes and families were HEALED! Churches were packed and on FIRE with fervour and zeal!

http://truthinhistory.org/the-welsh-rev ... -1905.html

Has anyone an overview of this? Maybe, like fundamentalism, it is also a reaction to modernism? Those dreadful hammers!

[Clive]

And again you don't need a founder! A group of people, probably doing mind altering activities, can easily come up with this stuff!

It also then becomes incredibly easy to spread these ways of doing stuff! The theology and the back stories then follow!

[Clive]

Actually we know what the mind altering activities are! Baptism, eating and drinking of the body and blood of christ, welcoming the morning sun, probably after having been up all night praying, singing, dancing, speaking in tongues.

The New Testament becomes an accurate record of the stories they invented about this Jesus character, the early development of the ideas and the theological disputes.

[Clive]

Plays are an integral way of spreading the story.

[outhouse]

Jesus began his career as a spirit possessed healer and exorcist,

I don't think it can be argued against successfully either.

But to what extent, cannot be known by my opinion.

attracted a following of others susceptible to the same sort of spirit possession

I don't think so. I think he just had hi sinner circle traveling around with him.

Everyone followed that pesky demons needed to be ran off. It was typical for most all peasant classes with no real health care.

50 days after his death to be precise

I don't buy that BS, way to certain for me.

these followers themselves experienced the same state of possession/alternative consciousness.

Living in a terrible time and place?

Sorry don't see this as a foundation to anything but his fantasy land.

[Clive]

An altered state of consciousness (ASC),[1] also called altered state of mind or mind alteration, is any condition which is significantly different from a normal waking beta wave state. The expression was used as early as 1966 by Arnold M. Ludwig[2] and brought into common usage from 1969 by Charles Tart.[3][4] It describes induced changes in one's mental state, almost always temporary. A synonymous phrase is "altered state of awareness".

Contents [hide]
1 Concept
2 Causes
3 Accidental and pathological causes
3.1 Traumatic experience
3.2 Epilepsy
3.3 Oxygen deficiency
3.4 Infections
3.5 Sleep deprivation
3.6 Fasting
3.7 Psychosis
4 Intentional causes
4.1 Psychoactive drugs
5 See also
6 Notes
7 References
8 Sources
9 Further reading
Concept[edit]
The term "altered state of consciousness" was introduced and defined by Ludwig in 1966.[5] An altered state of consciousness is any mental state induced by physiological, psychological, or pharmacological maneuvers or agents, which deviates from the normal waking state of consciousness.[5]

Some observable abnormal and sluggish behaviors meet the criteria for altered state of consciousness.[6] Altered states of consciousness can also be associated with artistic creativity[7] or different focus levels. They also can be shared interpersonally and studied as a subject of sociological research.[8]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altered_st ... sciousness

There is nothing of fantasy about this idea - religious practice is a well accepted source of ASC.

I would propose further that as a small group phenomenon, it does not require a leader. There are myriad examples of fascinating group behaviours that do not have leaders.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/ ... n-pictures