Parallelomania (parallels between OT/NT & other traditions)

[gilius]

The parallels in Caesar's Messiah are totally valid because they consist of low-medium frequency words/phrases occurring in sequence:

Take Matt 23-24 and the start of 25 (mostly just a couple of chapters) and compare with a chapter in Josephus (Wars of the Jews, 6, 5, 271-287, 298-315) and yet you find all these words/phrases:
Jesus (ben Ananus was also crucified and both "gave up the ghost")
Woe, woe, woe, woe, woe, woe, woe, woe (x 8)
"Bridegroom and the Bride"
East, West
"Four Winds"
"False Prophets"

And each of those words/phrases are in different contexts (they are not repeating the same nursery rhyme that could have originated from a lost 3rd source).

I'll list a few other sequential ones:
“good news” euaggelion in Greek (Luke 4:43 + Wars of the Jews 3, 10, 503)
“Lake of Gennesaret” (Luke 5:1-10 + Wars of the Jews 3, 10, 463)
Jesus and his apostles vs. Jesus and his party (Luke 5:1-10 vs. WOTJ 3, 10, 467)
Sabbath + “right hand” vs. Seventh day + “right hands” (Luke 6:1-11 vs. WOTJ 4, 2, 92-104)
Legion vs. too small for an army, and too many for a gang of thieves (WOTJ 4, 7, 408)
Gadara (Luke 8:26-30 + WOTJ 4, 7, 413)
herd ran violently vs. wild beasts rushed + “into the” lake vs. “into the” current (Luke 8:33 vs. WOTJ 4, 8, 425, 434)
loose + bound (Luke 9:18 substituted by Matt. 16:19 + WOTJ 4, 10, 628-629)
the crowds were increasing vs. The Jews became still more and more in number (Luke 11:29 vs. WOTJ 5, 2, 78)
divided .. three .. two (Luke 12:52 + WOTJ 5, 3, 105)
“Cut down” fruit trees (Luke 13:7-9 + WOTJ 5, 3, 107)
conditions “of peace” vs. terms “of peace” (Luke 14:32 vs. WOTJ 5, 6, 261)
stones “cry out” (Luke 19:40 + WOTJ 5, 6, 272)
sacrifice cease vs. sacrifice failed (Luke 21:10-11, 20 linked to Dan. 9:27 vs. WOTJ 6, 2, 94)
Eleazar vs. Lazarus (both also share characteristics of Jesus) + Mount of Olives (Luke 22:2 linked to other passages vs. WOTJ 6,2,157-163 linked to other passages)
temple vs. HOLY HOUSE + signs + not one stone left vs. DESTRUCTION + sun darkened vs. sun-setting (Luke 23:45-46 linked to Matt 23:1-39, 24:1-44 vs./+ WOTJ 6,5,271-287, 298-315)
(Jesus): woe + woe + woe + woe + woe + woe + woe + woe + “give up the ghost” (was also crucified and scourged) (Luke 23:45-46 linked to Matt 23:1-39, 24:1-44 vs. WOTJ 6,5,271-287, 298-315)
east + west + “four winds” + “bridegrooms and the brides” (Luke 23:45-46 linked to Matt 23:1-39, 24:1-44 and Matt 25:1 vs. WOTJ 6,5,271-287, 298-315)
Zach: murdered between the temple and the altar vs. in the middle of the temple, and slew him (Luke 23:45-46 linked to Matt 23:1-39, 24:1-44 vs. WOTJ 6,5,271-287, 298-315 linked to WOTJ 4,5,334-335, 341-343)
Zechariah, son of Berechiah vs. Zacharias the son of Baruch (Luke 23:45-46 linked to Matt 23:1-39, 24:1-44 vs. WOTJ 6,5,271-287, 298-315 linked to WOTJ 4,5,334-335, 341-343)
Doubt in their Lord’s identity (Luke 24:16, 37 linked to other passages vs. WOTJ 7, 10, 418)

That's like DNA evidence proving a link between the gospels and Josephus, so the next stage is to understand why this deliberate interweaving has taken place? Well, when you put the parallels together you get about 50-60 pieces of interpretable satire as well as 50-60 pieces of valuable information. It can then be proven that both sets of literature were written by the same author(s).

[gilius]

The information gleaned is that Titus is the Son of Man who will come with the Roman army (eagles, trumpets) to crush the Jews and raze the temple - foreseen by a prophet (Jesus) whose ministry took place exactly 40 years before Titus' campaign (and they both travelled the same itinerary):
http://s21.postimg.org/p4rpun6h3/image.jpg

The satire from the above parallel is that Jesus saw himself as the cornerstone of the temple - a stone that could utterly crush - but Jesus' lampoon (ben Ananus) gets crushed by a stone from a Roman siege engine "woe, woe to myself also... and as he said that he got hit by a stone from one of the Roman siege engines"!

[arnoldo]

Shakespeare allegedly was aware of how the Romans created the gospels.

[gilius]

yep - first play is Titus Andronicus - Shakespeare says in so many words "look for patterns in sequence"!

[Peter Kirby]

The parallels in Caesar's Messiah are totally valid because they consist of low-medium frequency words/phrases occurring in sequence:

That's like DNA evidence proving a link between the gospels and Josephus

"That's like DNA evidence"? Yes, perhaps we do need to bring back that rolling on the floor back and forth laughing icon...

[gilius]

Let's say a few isolated strands of your DNA are found at a crime scene:
GTAC
..
CAGT

That's not enough to convict you of the crime. However, should a whole "sequence" of matching 4 letter strands be found then that is enough to put you in the electric chair! And that is why the parallel system in Caesar's Messiah proves Christianity to be a government project - carried out by a group of psychopaths.

[neilgodfrey]

The parallels in Caesar's Messiah are totally valid because they consist of low-medium frequency words/phrases occurring in sequence:

Does Atwill argue this or is this your own unique contribution? I had always understood Atwill argued for sequences of events being parallel but have been unaware he argued on the basis of a sequence of low-medium frequency words/phrases. If this is Atwill's argument where can I read his account of it?

[gilius]

There's at least 4 ways of proving the invention of Christianity besides Titus' parallel system. One method involves looking at the alignment of dates with the book of Daniel; another at the blunders. There's another parallel system adopted by Titus' brother Domitian using 3 books instead of 2 with even more perverse jokes. There's the Testimonium/Decius Mundus puzzle and then there's even confessions in the books identifying the whole team of authors behind the invention of Christianity!

I, myself, researched the word frequency at http://corpus.byu.edu/coca/ with 190,000 texts.
25063951 the
26012 jesus
12351516 and
67 four winds
69 False Prophets
14944 divided
304643 three
582418 two
15818 loose
11956 bound
8271 good news
103217 cut
18641 fruit
36221 tree
2377 famine
68341 east
85032 west
11874 clouds

"false prophets" and "four winds" are too rare to be found between two books that also have "bridegroom and the bride", Jerusalem, and Jesus in the same chapter - not to mention woe x 8 and the 2nd Jesus also having been scourged and crucified! So that's how you begin to establish a link between the 2 books. A system like this exists between the Old Testament and the New Testament, but it is not as sophisticated as the one between the New Testament and Josephus because the Romans were evidently in control of both the latter books, so there is deliberate satire and even blunders that exposes them. And there's even more to those 2 chapters than what I have highlighted above:
http://s2.postimg.org/wax14nz89/woe.jpg
http://s27.postimg.org/iycrljxnn/image.jpg
http://s10.postimg.org/7mrtpe1kp/image.jpg
Remember, they were informing posterity and wanted legacy, so hoped it would be discovered sooner than later! However, Flavius Constantine (most likely a descendent of theirs) introduced the first laws of Feudalism that tied people to the land, so Europe entered the illiterate Dark Ages until the time of Shakespeare - Titus' legacy is only being realised now - unfortunately for him few people nowadays have any interest.

A copy of Josephus went hand in hand with in the early Bible in some churches (this is probably how it was taught to slaves since the beginning), and everyone was shown that Jesus predicted the destruction of Jerusalem because they genuinely thought he was divine. Now atheists realise a manmade explanation should be explored first before a divine one - it's clear Jesus' character was created in part to prefigure Titus; an ex-Jesuit reveals what these chapters are essentially all about:
"But the Jews rebelled against Rome, and in 70 AD, Roman armies under General Titus smashed Jerusalem and destroyed the great Jewish temple which was the heart of Jewish worship...in fulfillment of Christ's prophecy in Matthew 24:2."
http://www.redicecreations.com/specialr ... islam.html

[gilius]

Remember: both Jesus and Titus began their ministry and campaign, respectively, at the Sea of Galilee (named "lake of gennesaret" in both books) after being sent by their father (Vespasian was also deified as a god for the Imperial Cult like Julius Caesar) before travelling through the Galilean towns (via Gadara) on the road to Jerusalem. When they reach Jerusalem they stop outside before a triumphal entrance. Then comes the destruction of the physical and symbolic temple: the crucifixions then take place outside of Jerusalem:
http://postimg.org/image/cwswqicu1/
So not only are the parallels in sequence, but so is their itinerary!

Caesar's Messiah documentary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oufm9URIEGM

Christianity was all one big sick joke on the part of psychopaths:
http://postimg.org/image/a9z9ozdpb/

[Leucius Charinus]

There's at least 4 ways of proving the invention of Christianity besides Titus' parallel system. One method involves looking at the alignment of dates with the book of Daniel; another at the blunders. There's another parallel system adopted by Titus' brother Domitian using 3 books instead of 2 with even more perverse jokes. There's the Testimonium/Decius Mundus puzzle and then there's even confessions in the books identifying the whole team of authors behind the invention of Christianity!

I, myself, researched the word frequency at http://corpus.byu.edu/coca/ with 190,000 texts.

Firstly I don't mean to belittle your own research but the question was does Atwill use this method, or a related method.

Secondly your claims if true would be quite controversial. I would be interested in hearing your ideas and asking questions.

For example, is your database of texts in English or in the language of their original authorship? IDK and am not familiar with your site.

A copy of Josephus went hand in hand with in the early Bible in some churches .....

Which century or centuries was this and what source(s) are you using for this statement? Thanks.

Now atheists realise a manmade explanation should be explored first before a divine one

I object that you need to refer to atheists on the basis that the more appropriate phrase should be ... "Historians" realise a manmade explanation should be explored first before a divine one.

Sorry about the quibble. Welcome to the discussions.

- it's clear Jesus' character was created in part to prefigure Titus; an ex-Jesuit reveals what these chapters are essentially all about:

"But the Jews rebelled against Rome, and in 70 AD, Roman armies under General Titus smashed Jerusalem
and destroyed the great Jewish temple which was the heart of Jewish worship...in fulfillment of Christ's prophecy in Matthew 24:2."
http://www.redicecreations.com/specialr ... islam.html

So the claim is that Matthew was written after 70 CE?




LC