possible references to docetic-type beliefs

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Peter Kirby
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Re: possible references to docetic-type beliefs

Post by Peter Kirby »

Infancy Gospel of James, 14 [ca. 2nd century?]
And they stood in the place of the cave, and behold a luminous cloud overshadowed the cave. And the midwife said: My soul has been magnified this day, because mine eyes have seen strange things -- because salvation has been brought forth to Israel. And immediately the cloud disappeared out of the cave, and a great light shone in the cave, so that the eyes could not bear it. And in a little that light gradually decreased, until the infant appeared, and went and took the breast from His mother Mary.

Pseudo-Matthew [?] [ca. 600-625?] [a source for Arundel 404]
And ... the angel ... commanded the blessed Mary to ... go into a recess under a cavern, in which there never was light, but always darkness, because the light of day could not reach it. And when the blessed Mary had gone into it, it began to shine with as much brightness as if it were the sixth hour of the day. The light from God so shone in the cave, that neither by day nor night was light wanting as long as the blessed Mary was there. And there she brought forth a son, and the angels surrounded Him when He was being born. And as soon as He was born, He stood upon His feet, and the angels adored Him, saying: Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace to men of good pleasure. ... Zelomi said to Mary: Allow me to touch thee. And when she had permitted her to make an examination, the midwife cried out with a loud voice, and said: Lord, Lord Almighty, mercy on us! It has never been heard or thought of, that any one should have her breasts full of milk, and that the birth of a son should show his mother to be a virgin. But there has been no spilling of blood in his birth, no pain in bringing him forth. A virgin has conceived, a virgin has brought forth, and a virgin she remains.
"... almost every critical biblical position was earlier advanced by skeptics." - Raymond Brown
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arnoldo
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Re: possible references to docetic-type beliefs

Post by arnoldo »

Gospel of Thomas Saying 19: Jesus says: "Blessed is the man who existed before he came into being!"
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/t ... mas19.html
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Re: possible references to docetic-type beliefs

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Peter Kirby wrote:Background Material

Tobit 12:19 [angel Raphael]
Even though you saw me eat and drink, I did not eat or drink anything; what you were seeing was a vision.
I've been finding more background material in Robert Price's book The Amazing Colossal Apostle.

"In Heliodorus's An Ethiopian Story, the Egyptian priest Kalasiris explains the rationale as well as the manner of the docetic epiphany of gods on earth." (Robert Price, The Amazing Colossal Apostle)

"Kalasiris paused for a moment until he had achieved the exalted state of mind appropriate to a man of mysteries. Then he said: 'Knemon, when gods and spirits descend to earth or ascend from earth, they very occasionally assume the form of an animal, but generally they take on human shape: the resemblance to ourselves makes their theophany more accessible to us. They might pass unperceived to the uninitiated, but they cannot avoid recognition by the wise, who will know them firstly by their eyes, which have an extraordinary intensity and never blink, but more especially by their method of locomotion, which is not accomplished by the displacement or transposition of their feet, but by a sort of smooth, gliding motion and without touching the ground, so that they cleave rather than walk through the circumambient air." (Heliodorus, An Ethiopian Story, translated by J. R. Morgan, in Collected Ancient Greek Novels, ed. Bryan P. Reardon, pp. 349-388)

Iamblichus reports about Pythagoras that he "came ... for the purpose of remedying and benefitting the condition of mankind, and that on this account he had assumed a human form, lest men, being disturbed by the novelty of his transcendency, should avoid the discipline which he possessed." (Thomas Taylor, translator, Iamblichus' Life of Pythagoreas or Pythagoric Life, p. 50)

"I shall be set at liberty this day, but so far as depends upon my own will, now and here. And with these words he took his leg out of the fetters and remarked to Damis: 'Here is proof positive to you of my freedom, so cheer up.' Damis says that it was then for the first time that he really and truly understood the nature of Apollonius, to wit that it was divine and superhuman, for ... he quietly laughed at the fetters, and then inserted his leg in them afresh, and behaved like a prisoner once more." (II, 257) (The Life of Apollonius of Tyana by Flavius Philostratus, translated by F. C. Conybeare)

"Once Apollonius appears before the tyrant and says his piece, he miraculously vanishes, quoting the Iliad 22:13, 'For thou shalt not slay me, since I am not mortal' (II, 283). Thus 'he left no one in ignorance of his true nature, but allowed it to be known to all to be such that he had it in him never to be taken prisoner against his own will' (II, 285). Of course, the reader has known since the beginning that Apollonius was born the incarnation of the shape-shifting god Proteus (I, 13)." (Robert Price, The Amazing Colossal Apostle)

"In The Golden Ass, the narrator has a night vision of Osiris in which, contrary to his usual habit, Osiris appears 'not disguised in any other form, but in his own essence and speaking to me with his own venerable voice' (282)." (Robert Price, The Amazing Colossal Apostle)

"So Dionysius [a nobleman, patron of the temple of Aphrodite] saw her [Callirhoe]. 'Aphrodite,' he cried, 'be gracious to me!' He was in the act of prostrating himself when [his servant] Leonas caught him up and said: 'Sir, this is the woman I bought - don't be alarmed. Woman, come to your master!' ... Dionysius struck Leonas. 'Impious man!' he cried. 'Do you speak to gods as if they were human?' ... At that Callirhoe replied: 'Stop making fun of me! Stop calling me a goddess - I'm not even a happy mortal!' As she spoke, her voice seemed the voice of a god to Dionysius.' (Chaereas and Callirhoe, 40-41, Reardon translation; "cf. Acts 12:22" - in Robert Price, The Amazing Colossal Apostle)

"So the ship put into Rhodes, and the sailors disembarked; Habrocomes too came off, hand in hand with Anthia. All the Rhodians gathered, amazed at the young people's beauty, and no one who saw them passed by in silence; some said it was a visitation of auspicious gods; some offered them worship and adoration..." (Anderson translation, p. 135, "cf. Acts 14:11-13" - in Robert Price, The Amazing Colossal Apostle)
"... almost every critical biblical position was earlier advanced by skeptics." - Raymond Brown
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arnoldo
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Re: possible references to docetic-type beliefs

Post by arnoldo »

Acts 14:11-12
When the crowd saw what Paul had done, they shouted in the Lycaonian language, “The gods have come down to us in human form!” Barnabas they called Zeus, and Paul they called Hermes because he was the chief speaker.
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Re: possible references to docetic-type beliefs

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Celsus (c. AD 170) focused on refuting 'docetism' (that Jesus had the 'body of a god').

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/04161.htm
Chapter 69

After this, Celsus, confusing together the Christian doctrine and the opinions of some heretical sect, and bringing them forward as charges that were applicable to all who believe in the divine word, says: Such a body as yours could not have belonged to God. Now, in answer to this, we have to say that Jesus, on entering into the world, assumed, as one born of a woman, a human body, and one which was capable of suffering a natural death. For which reason, in addition to others, we say that He was also a great wrestler; having, on account of His human body, been tempted in all respects like other men, but no longer as men, with sin as a consequence, but being altogether without sin. For it is distinctly clear to us that He did no sin, neither was guile found in His mouth; and as one who knew no sin, God delivered Him up as pure for all who had sinned. Then Celsus says: The body of god would not have been so generated as you, O Jesus, were. He saw, besides, that if, as it is written, it had been born, His body somehow might be even more divine than that of the multitude, and in a certain sense a body of god. But he disbelieves the accounts of His conception by the Holy Ghost, and believes that He was begotten by one Panthera, who corrupted the Virgin, because a god's body would not have been so generated as you were. But we have spoken of these matters at greater length in the preceding pages.

Chapter 70

He asserts, moreover, that the body of a god is not nourished with such food (as was that of Jesus), since he is able to prove from the Gospel narratives both that He partook of food, and food of a particular kind. Well, be it so. Let him assert that He ate the passover with His disciples, when He not only used the words, With desire have I desired to eat this passover with you, but also actually partook of the same. And let him say also, that He experienced the sensation of thirst beside the well of Jacob, and drank of the water of the well. In what respect do these facts militate against what we have said respecting the nature of His body? Moreover, it appears indubitable that after His resurrection He ate a piece of fish; for, according to our view, He assumed a (true) body, as one born of a woman. But, objects Celsus, the body of a god does not make use of such a voice as that of Jesus, nor employ such a method of persuasion as he. These are, indeed, trifling and altogether contemptible objections. For our reply to him will be, that he who is believed among the Greeks to be a god, viz., the Pythian and Didymean Apollo, makes use of such a voice for his Pythian priestess at Delphi, and for his prophetess at Miletus; and yet neither the Pythian nor Didymean is charged by the Greeks with not being a god, nor any other Grecian deity whose worship is established in one place. And it was far better, surely, that a god should employ a voice which, on account of its being uttered with power, should produce an indescribable sort of persuasion in the minds of the hearers.
"... almost every critical biblical position was earlier advanced by skeptics." - Raymond Brown
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Tenorikuma
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Re: possible references to docetic-type beliefs

Post by Tenorikuma »

arnoldo wrote:Acts 14:11-12
When the crowd saw what Paul had done, they shouted in the Lycaonian language, “The gods have come down to us in human form!” Barnabas they called Zeus, and Paul they called Hermes because he was the chief speaker.
Here, the author of Acts is adapting the story of Baukis and Philemon in Ovid's Metamorphoses. It's the same motif of "gods visiting humans in disguise" that the author of Hebrews refers to.

It's never explained, however, how Paul comes by his knowledge of the Lycaonian/Luwian language and can preach to the locals.
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Tenorikuma
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Re: possible references to docetic-type beliefs

Post by Tenorikuma »

Regarding Raphael, remember that he has to invent a human genealogy in order to be accepted by Tobias's father. :)
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