Who was the first person to claim Jesus never exsisted?

[Leucius Charinus]

Please be assured that I do not consider you Leucius Charinus a smart-aleck and again I apologize for missing your point. So, if you would please, link the post or cut&paste the pertinent parts so I can review it.

There have been earlier discussions on the following issues ...

Were the Gnostics mythicists? ........................ viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1175
The Historicity of "Post Resurrection" Jesus ..... viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1194


The non canonical Acts are fiction novels featuring the appearance of a fictitious post resurrection Jesus.

The author of the Acts of John for example has the apostle John wandering around after Jesus looking for his footprints on earth but alas, he couldn't find any footprints.

You might like to argue that this is not a clear cut example of an early person claiming that Jesus never existed.

Supposing you hired a detective to check out whether Mr X existed or was a fake, and the detective couldn't find any footprints for Mr X.

You tell me. Would you believe or disbelieve that Mr X (who incidentally was resurrected from the dead) existed?





LC

[John T]

Please be assured that I do not consider you Leucius Charinus a smart-aleck and again I apologize for missing your point. So, if you would please, link the post or cut&paste the pertinent parts so I can review it.

There have been earlier discussions on the following issues ...

Were the Gnostics mythicists? ........................ viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1175
The Historicity of "Post Resurrection" Jesus ..... viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1194


The non canonical Acts are fiction novels featuring the appearance of a fictitious post resurrection Jesus.

The author of the Acts of John for example has the apostle John wandering around after Jesus looking for his footprints on earth but alas, he couldn't find any footprints.

You might like to argue that this is not a clear cut example of an early person claiming that Jesus never existed.

Supposing you hired a detective to check out whether Mr X existed or was a fake, and the detective couldn't find any footprints for Mr X.

You tell me. Would you believe or disbelieve that Mr X (who incidentally was resurrected from the dead) existed?







LC

I'm sorry but I didn't see it in your links.

Please cut and paste from your link the earliest source known for someone claiming Jesus never existed.

V/R

John T

[Ulan]

And then you can go one step further - Origen's observation on Pilate's 'amazement' that Jesus died so quickly on the cross. The expectation was that crucifixion would be a lingering long affair. Jesus was basically put up, everyone leaves and then 'wow' he's appears dead. Something was wrong here, by implication. Pilate was surprised, Origen, said because something unusual occurred. Origen says divine intervention was at work in the episode. It was miraculous even supernatural.

This is one interpretation, but I'm not 100% convinced that this has to be the reason. There may still be a different layer to the story. While the idea that Jesus was seen as Nazirite may be weak because of lots of other details in the story, there's still
Mark 14:25 (Truly, I say to you, I will not drink again of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God). In case there ever was the idea of Jesus as Nazirite, and if he was supposed to be the clean offering, he had to die first during the crucifixion. Otherwise, he would have become unclean in the presence of the dead, and the offering would have been void.

Of course, in the last versions of the gospels, he was unclean anyway, so it's not necessarily convincing.