aspects of Tacitus's Annals 15.44

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
User avatar
MrMacSon
Posts: 8891
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 3:45 pm

aspects of Tacitus's Annals 15.44

Post by MrMacSon »

There is an interesting history to the Annals, and interesting commentary on Annals 15.44.

I will post some as a series of posts in this new thread. the first a passage by Rev Robert Taylor in his 1829 Diegesis
TACITUS, A. D. 107
  • <snip>
The first publication of any part of the Annals of Tacitus, was by Johannes de Spire, at Venice, in the year 1468. His imprint being made from a single manuscript, in his own power and possession only, and purporting to have been written in the eighth century. From this manuscript, which none but the most learned would know of, none but the most curious would investigate, and none but the most interested would transcribe, or be allowed to transcribe; and that too, in an age and country, when and where, to have suggested but a doubt against the authenticity of any document which the authorities had once chosen to adopt as evidence of [p.394] Christianity, would have subjected the conscientious sceptic to the faggot; from this, all other manuscripts and printed copies of the works of Tacitus are derived: and consequently in the forty-fourth section of the fifteenth. book of these 'Annals', we have
THE CELEBRATED PASSAGE
After a description of the terrible fire at Rome in the tenth of Nero, and the sixty-fourth of our Lord, in which a large part of the city was consumed; and an account of the order given for rebuilding and beautifying it, and the methods used to appease the anger of the Gods: Tacitus adds605
  • "But neither all the human help, nor the liberality of the Emperor, nor all the atonements presented to the Gods, availed to abate the infamy he lay under of having ordered the city to be set on fire. To suppress, therefore, this common rumour, Nero procured others to be accused, and inflicted exquisite punishments upon those people who were held in abhorrence for their crimes, and were commonly known by the name of Chrestiani. They had their denomination from Christus, who, in the reign of Tiberius, was put to death as a criminal by the procurator Pontius Pilate. This pernicious superstition, though checked for awhile, broke out again, and spread, not over Judea, the source of this evil, but reached the city also: whither flow from all quarters all things vile and shameful, and where they find shelter and encouragement. At first, they only were apprehended who confessed themselves of that sect; afterwards, a vast multitude discovered by them; all which were condemned, not so much for the crime of burning the city, as for their enmity to mankind. Their executions were so contrived as to expose [p.395] them to derision and contempt. Some were covered over with the skins of wild beasts, and torn to pieces by dogs; some were crucified: others, having been daubed over with combustible materials, were set up as lights in the night-time, and thus burned to death. Nero made use of his own gardens as a theatre on this occasion, and also exhibited the diversions of the Circus, sometimes standing in the crowd as a spectator, in the habit of a charioteer ; at other times driving a chariot himself; till at length these men, though really criminal and deserving exemplary punishment, began to be commiserated as people who were destroyed, not out of regard to the public welfare, but only to gratify the cruelty of one man."
Rev. Robert Taylor A.B. & M.R.C.S. (1829) The Diegesis; Being a Discovery of the Origen, Evidences, and Early History of Christianity ....
      • J. Cunningham; London
http://www.masseiana.org/diegesis.htm
Last edited by MrMacSon on Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
MrMacSon
Posts: 8891
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 3:45 pm

Re: aspects of Tacitus's Annals 15.44

Post by MrMacSon »

The history of 'the Annals' begins with the Italian calligrapher, Latin scholar and Papal secretary Gian Francesco Poggio Bracciolini (1380-1459), who, writing in 1425, intimated the existence of unknown works by Tacitus supposedly at a Benedictine monastery in Hersfeld, Germany. "The Annals" was subsequently 'discovered' in a copy of Tacitus's Histories at the monastery, in the sixteenth century. This text was not named 'Annals,' however, until 1544, by Beatus Rhenanus.

In 1878, the 'excellent Latin scholar' WJ Ross wrote the book Tacitus and Bracciolini: The Annals Forged in the XVth Century, which evinced that the entire 'Annals' were a forgery in very flawed Latin by Bracciolini in the 15th century. Ross's work was assailed by various clergymen, who claimed the main defect in his argument was that "one of the MSS. [manuscripts] of the Annals is at least as early as the XI century." In reality, the critics had not actually read Ross's book, in which Ross does indeed address this purported 11th century manuscript, which he shows was merely pronounced by dictum to be early. Interested readers are referred to Cutner1 and Ross's books for further discussion of this debate, which includes, in Ross's dissertation, a minute examination of the Latin of the Annals. Suffice it to say that the evidence is on the side of those who maintain the 15th century date, in that the Annals appear nowhere until that time.
  • ... < snip > ...
The reason for this hoax may be the same as the countless others perpetrated over the millennia: The period when the Annals were discovered was one of manuscript-hunting, with huge amounts of money being offered for unearthing such texts, specifically those that bolstered the claims of Christianity. There is no question that poor, desperate and enterprising monks set about to fabricate manuscripts of this type. Bracciolini, a Papal secretary, was in the position to collect the "500 gold sequins" for his composition, which, it has been claimed was reworked by a monk at Hersfeld/Hirschfelde, "in imitation of a very old copy of the History of Tacitus."

Regarding Christian desperation for evidence of the existence of Christ, Dupuis2 comments that true believers are "reduced to look, nearly a hundred years after, for a passage in Tacitus" that does not even provide information other than "the etymology of the word Christian," or they are compelled "to interpolate, by pious fraud, a passage in Josephus." Neither passage, Dupuis concludes, is sufficient to establish the existence of such a remarkable legislator and philosopher, much less a "notorious impostor."

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php? ... 87.25;wap2

1. Cutner (2000) Jesus: God, Man or Myth? An Examination of the Evidence (?)

2. Dupuis, C (1984) Origin [of] All Religious Worship (Myth & romanticism)
Last edited by MrMacSon on Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
MrMacSon
Posts: 8891
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 3:45 pm

Re: aspects of Tacitus's Annals 15.44

Post by MrMacSon »

In 1902 Georg Andresen commented on the appearance of the first 'i' and subsequent gap in the earliest extant, 11th century, copy of the Annals in Florence, suggesting that the text had been altered, and an 'e' had originally been in the text, rather than this 'i'.[17] "With ultra-violet examination of the MS the alteration was conclusively shown. It is impossible today to say who altered the letter e into an i ..."[18]
  • 18 J. Boman, Inpulsore Cherestro? Suetonius’ Divus Claudius 25.4 in Sources and Manuscripts, Liber Annuus 61 (2011), ISSN 0081-8933, Studium Biblicum Franciscanum, Jerusalem 2012, p. 355, n. 2.
Adolf von Harnack argued that Chrestians was the original wording, and that Tacitus deliberately used Christus immediately after it to show his own superior knowledge compared to the population at large.[20] Robert Renehan has stated that it was natural for a Roman to mix the two words that sounded the same, that Chrestianos was the original word in the Annals and not an error by a scribe.[23][24]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on ... Chrestians
I consider it now totally safe to say, in accordance with the examinations made by Andresen, Lodi and Rao, that the fourth letter in “Christianos” indeed has been changed from an “e” to an “i”. Accordingly, the scribe originally wrote Chrestiani, “Chrestians”

http://data.doc4net.com/doc/2859310037003
User avatar
MrMacSon
Posts: 8891
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 3:45 pm

Re: aspects of Tacitus's Annals 15.44

Post by MrMacSon »

.
Now, let's go back to Rev Robert Taylor and, first, the bit I 'snipped' after his sub-title Tacitus
TACITUS, A. D. 107
We have investigated the claims of every document possessing a plausible claim to be investigated, which history has preserved of the transactions of the first century; and not so much as one single passage, purporting [p.393] to have been written at any time within the first hundred years, can be produced from any independent authority whatever, to show the existence at or before that time of such a person as Jesus Christ, or of such a set of men as could be accounted to be his disciples.

After the many forgeries and interpolations that have been detected in the texts of authors of high repute, nay the forging of whole books and palming them upon authors of established reputation, for the purpose of kidnapping their respectability into the service of Christianity, and fathering them with admissions, which they never made nor intended; it would have been next to a miracle, if the text of the great prince of historians, had been suffered to come down to us unengrafted with a suitable recognition of the existence of Christ, and of Christians: or if, after, the shrewdest talent and profoundest learning were engaged in the service, the important business of managing such an interpolation had been left to hands that could not have done it better than to fear detection from any ordinary powers of criticism.

Eusebius had christianized Josephus; it remained for shrewder masters of criticism, and the more accomplished scholars and infidels of a later age to perform a similar regeneration upon the text of Tacitus.

This illustrious Roman inherits immortal renown as an historian, for his beautiful description of the manners of the ancient Germans, his Life of Agricola, his History of Rome, from the time of the emperor Galba to the death of Domitian; and lastly for his Annals, beginning at Tiberius, and terminating with the death of Nero. He was born about A. D. 62, and wrote his Annals very late in life, as nearly as probable conjecture can bring us, about A. D. 107.

The first publication of any part of the Annals of Tacitus, was by Johannes de Spire, at Venice, in the year 1468. His imprint being made from a single manuscript, in his own power and possession only, and purporting to have been written in the eighth century. ... etc ....

http://www.masseiana.org/diegesis.htm
then Rev Taylor's critique of the passage -
I consider this celebrated passage to be a forgery or interpolation upon the text of Tacitus, from no disposition, I am sure, to give offence to those who may have as good reasons, and probably better, for esteeming it to be unquestionably genuine, from no wish to deduct from Christianity one tittle or iota of its fair or probable evidence, but from a consideration solely of the facts of the case, which I here subjoin; and which, if they shall have less weight in the judgment of the reader than of the author: the reader will reap the advantage of holding the opposite conclusion, not only in concurrence with the decision of the wisest and best men in the world, but on that surer ground of satisfaction with which every conviction is held, after men have been so faithful to themselves as to weigh the objections that can be alleged against it.

The facts of the case are these—

1. This passage, which would have served the purpose of Christian quotation better than any other in all the writings of Tacitus, or of any Pagan writer whatever, is not quoted by any of the Christian Fathers.

2. It is not quoted by Tertullian, though he had read and largely quotes the works of Tacitus;

3. And though his argument immediately called for the use of this quotation with so loud a voice,606 that his omission of it, if it had really existed, amounts to a violent improbability.

[p.396] 4. This Father has spoken of Tacitus in a way that it is absolutely impossible that he should have spoken of him, had his writings contained such a passage.607

5. It is not quoted by Clemens Alexandrinus, who set himself entirely to the work of adducing and bringing together all the admissions and recognitions which Pagan authors had made of the existence of Christ or Christians before his time.

6. It has been no where stumbled on by the laborious and all-seeking Eusebius, who could by no possibility have missed of it, and whom it would have saved from the labour and infamy of forging the passage of Josephus: of adducing the correspondence of Christ and Abgarus, and the Sibylline verses; of forging a divine revelation from the God Apollo, in attestation of Christ’s ascension into heaven; and innumerable other of his pious and holy cheats.

7. There is no vestige nor trace of its existence any where in the world before the 15th century.

8. It rests then entirely upon the fidelity of a single individual;

9. And he, having the ability, the opportunity, and the strongest possible incitement of interest to induce him to introduce the interpolation.

10. The passage itself, though unquestionably the work of a master, and entitled to be pronounced the chef d’œuvre of the art: betrays the penchant of that delight in blood and in descriptions of bloody horrors, as peculiarly characteristic of the Christian disposition, as it was abhorrent to the mild and gentle mind and highly cultivated taste of Tacitus.

11. It bears a character of exaggeration, and trenches on the laws of rational probability, which the writings of Tacitus are rarely found to do.

12. It may be met and overthrown by the concussion of directly conflicting evidence of equal weight of challenge; a shock to which no statements of Tacitus besides are liable.

[p.397] 13. It is not conceivable that Nero, who, with all his crimes, was at least not safe in the commission of crime; and paid at last the forfeit of his life, not to private revenge, but to public justice, for less heinous enormities; should have been so ludibund in cruelty, and wanton in wickedness, as this passage would represent him.

14. It is not conceivable, that such good and innocent people as the primitive Christians must be supposed to be, should have provoked so great a degree of hostility, or that they should not sufficiently have endeared themselves to their fellow-citizens, to prevent the possibility of their being so treated.

15. It is not conceivable, that so just a man as Tacitus unquestionably was, could have spoken of the professors of a purer religion than the world before had seen, as really criminal, and deserving exemplary punishment.

16. The whole account is falsified by the text of the New Testament, in which Nero is spoken of as the Minister of God for good; and the Christians have the assurance of God himself, that so long as they were followers of that which was good, there was none that would harm them.—See 1 Peter iii. 13.

17. It is falsified by the apology of Tertullian, and the far more respectable testimony of Melito, Bishop of Sardis, who explicitly states that the Christians, up to his time, the third century, had never been victims of persecution: and that it was in provinces lying beyond the boundaries of the Roman Empire, and not in Judea, that Christianity originated.—See their testimonies in this DIEGESIS.

18. Not a disposition to reject Christianity, but an eagerness and promptness to run after and embrace it, has in all ages been the constitutional cacoethes of the human mind.

19. Tacitus has in no other part of his writings made the least allusion to Christ or Christians.

20. The use of this passage, as a part of the "Evidences of the Christian Religion", is absolutely modern.

http://www.masseiana.org/diegesis.htm
User avatar
MrMacSon
Posts: 8891
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 3:45 pm

Re: aspects of Tacitus's Annals 15.44

Post by MrMacSon »

Various commentators have said the reference to Chrestiani/Christians and Christ is Tacitus merely repeating hearsay from Christians themselves. Whether they have considered wholesale forgery is often hard to determine.
User avatar
MrMacSon
Posts: 8891
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 3:45 pm

Re: aspects of Tacitus's Annals 15.44

Post by MrMacSon »

Jay Raskin, who has posted here as PhilosopherJay and more latterly as jayraskin, has made some interesting proposals re Annals 15.44 and the mentions of Pontius Pilate and Tiberius
I proposed a number of years ago that Tacitus originally wrote that Nero sent the procurator Porcius Festus to put down the Christians/Chrestians.

Christian interpolators, misunderstanding[?], changed it [Porcius Festus] to Pontius Pilate; and they changed Chrestus to Christ, and Nero to Tiberius.

Thus, the original [would] read:
Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite punishments on a class hated for their disgraceful acts, called Chrestians by the populace. Chrestus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty (ie. crucifixion) during the reign of Nero at the hands of one of our procurators, Porcius Festus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their center and become popular.
Note what Josephus (Antiquities 20:8.10) says about the procurator Porcius Festus whom Nero sent:
10. Upon Festus’s coming into Judea, it happened that Judea was afflicted by the robbers, while all the villages were set on fire, and plundered by them. And then it was that the sicarii, as they were called, who were robbers, grew numerous. They made use of small swords, not much different in length from the Persian acinacae, but somewhat crooked, and like the Roman sicae, [or sickles], as they were called; and from these weapons these robbers got their denomination; and with these weapons they slew a great many; for they mingled themselves among the multitude at their festivals, when they were come up in crowds from all parts to the city to worship God, as we said before, and easily slew those that they had a mind to slay. They also came frequently upon the villages belonging to their enemies, with their weapons, and plundered them, and set them on fire. So Festus sent forces, both horsemen and footmen, to fall upon those that had been seduced by a certain impostor, who promised them deliverance and freedom from the miseries they were under, if they would but follow him as far as the wilderness. Accordingly, those forces that were sent destroyed both him that had deluded them, and those that were his followers also.

http://www.earlyjewishwritings.com/text ... ant20.html
It makes perfect sense for Tacitus to be talking about this “Chrest” who was killed around 59 according to Tacitus. The Christians reading the passage must have thought that Tacitus had heard the wrong story and took the liberty to correct him [if the reference to Christ wasn't a Christian interpolation].

The sudden leap back from the time of Nero to the time of Tiberius, and leap forward again, is what is really disconcerting about the passage.

https://jayraskin.wordpress.com/2011/04/04/294/
Last edited by MrMacSon on Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
MrMacSon
Posts: 8891
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 3:45 pm

Re: aspects of Tacitus's Annals 15.44

Post by MrMacSon »

.
It seems Tertullian's Ad Nationes also fits with Raskin's argument that the passages in Tacitus's Annals 15.44 (about the Emperor and the execution-supervisor of an alleged Christus/Chrestus - have been edited/redacted (from, originally, Nero to Tiberius, and from, originally, Porcius Festus to Pontius Pilate, respectively) -
This name of ours took its rise in the reign of Augustus; under Tiberius it was taught with all clearness and publicity; under Nero it was ruthlessly condemned, and you may weigh its worth and character even from the person of its persecutor. If that prince was a pious man, then the Christians are impious; if he was just, if he was pure, then the Christians are unjust and impure; if he was not a public enemy, we are enemies of our country: what sort of men we are, our persecutor himself shows, since he of course punished what produced hostility to himself. Now, although every other institution which existed under Nero has been destroyed, yet this of ours has firmly remained - righteous, it would seem, as being unlike the author (of its persecution).

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/t ... ian06.html
User avatar
MrMacSon
Posts: 8891
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 3:45 pm

Re: aspects of Tacitus's Annals 15.44

Post by MrMacSon »

And Jay Raskins further makes a good point about the likely use of 'Chrestus', rather than Christ, in Tacitus's and other's writings
It seems clear that the Roman historian Suetoneus (Claudius 25.4) did write
“Since the Jews constantly made disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, he [Claudius] expelled them from Rome.”

http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/R ... dius*.html
... there appears to be no reason to suspect any interpolation in Suetonius.

Recently it was discovered that the earlier manuscript of Tacitus had Chrestians in the passage and it was changed to Christians by a later scribe. It seems obvious that a Christian scribe could not have made the mistake of writing Chrestiani/Chrestianos for Christians, so we must take [if] that Tacitus’ passage was ... authentic, ... it has been interpolated. If Tacitus wrote Chrestians, then it is quite likely that he also wrote Chrest for Christ.

It seems ridiculous to say that Chrestiani (the good ones) came from Christ (the anointed one) ...

In order to make a joke out of the discrepancy, Tertullian writes in Ad Nationes (circa 200 CE)
“Even when by a faulty pronunciation you call us “Chrestians” (for you are not certain about even the sound of this noted name), you in fact lisp out the sense of pleasantness and goodness.”
To the rhetorician Tertullian the thought never occurs that the Romans might be a better and more accurate source for the beginning of Christianity than the Christians themselves.

Once we accept this, then we have [at least] two Roman historians from between 110-120 CE mentioning not Jesus or Christ, but a man leading a Jewish rebellion named Chrestus.

https://jayraskin.wordpress.com/2011/04/04/294/
Last edited by MrMacSon on Thu Mar 19, 2015 9:15 pm, edited 3 times in total.
User avatar
MrMacSon
Posts: 8891
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 3:45 pm

Re: aspects of Tacitus's Annals 15.44

Post by MrMacSon »

Another commentary, which may be superfluous
... (Annals XV, 44). The number of problems associated with this paragraph are almost too numerous to mention:

(1) It is extremely improbable that a special report found by Tacitus had been sent earlier to Rome and incorporated into the records of the Senate, in regard to the death of a Jewish provincial, Jesus. The execution of a Nazareth carpenter would have been one of the most insignificant events conceivable among the movements of Roman history in those decades; it would have completely disappeared beneath the innumerable executions inflicted by Roman provincial authorities. For it to have been kept in any report would have been a most remarkable instance of chance. That the founder of Christianity was put to death under Tiberius by the procurator Pontius Pilate must have been discovered in the same archive which, according to Tertullian, also said "the sun was darkened at midday when Jesus died".

(2) The phrase "multitudo ingens" which means "a great number" is opposed to all that we know of the spread of the new faith in Rome at the time. A vast multitude in 64 AD? There were not more than a few thousand Christians 200 years later.

(3) Death by fire was not a form of punishment inflicted at Rome in the time of Nero. It is opposed to the moderate principles on which the accused were then dealt with by the State. The use of the Christians as "living torches," as Tacitus describes, and all the other atrocities that were committed against them, have little title to credence, and suggest an imagination exalted by reading stories of the later Christian martyrs.

(4) The Roman authorities can have had no reason to inflict special punishment on the new faith. How could the non-initiated Romans know what were the concerns of a comparatively small religious sect, which was connected with Judaism and must have seemed to the impartial observer wholly identical with it.

(5) Suetonius himself says that Nero showed the utmost indifference, even contempt in regard to religious sects. Even afterwards the Christians were not persecuted for their faith, but for political reasons, for their contempt of the Roman state and emperor, and as disturbers of the unity and peace of the empire. What reason, then can Nero have had to proceed against the Christians, hardly distinguishable from the Jews, as a new and criminal sect.

(6) It is inconceivable that the followers of Jesus formed a community in the city at that time of sufficient importance to attract public attention and the ill-feeling of the people [Followers of Isiacism - Osiris, Is, & Serpais - however, could have had such numbers - see (16) below]

(7) The victims could not have been given to the flames in the gardens of Nero, as Tacitus allegedly said. According to another account by Tacitus these gardens were the refuge of those whose homes had been burned and were full of tents and wooden sheds. It is hardly probable that Nero would have incurred the risk of a second fire by his living torches.

(8) According to Tacitus, Nero was in Antium, not Rome, when the fire occurred.

(9) The blood-curdling story about the frightful orgies of Nero reads like some Christian romance of the Dark Ages and not like Tacitus. Suetonius, while mercilessly condemning the reign of Nero, says that in his public entertainments Nero took particular care that no lives should be sacrificed, "not even those of condemned criminals."

(10) It is highly unlikely that he mingled with the crowd and feasted his eyes on the ghastly spectacle. Tacitus tells us in his life of Agricola that Nero had crimes committed, but kept his own eyes off them.

(11) Some authorities allege that the passage in Tacitus could not have been interpolated because his style of writing could not have been copied. But this argument is without merit since there is no "inimitable" style for the clever forger, and the more unususal, distinctive, and peculiar a style is, like that of Tacitus, the easier it is to imitate. Moreover, as far as the historicity of Jesus is concerned we are, perhaps, interested only in one sentence of the passage and that has nothing distinctively Tacitan about it.

(12) Tacitus is assumed to have written this about 117 A.D., about 80 years after the death of Jesus, when Christianity was [allegedly] already an organized religion with a settled tradition. The gospels, or at least 3 of them, are supposed to have been in existence. Hence Tacitus might have derived his information about Jesus, if not directly from the gospels, indirectly from them by means of oral tradition. This is the view of Dupuis, who wrote: "Tacitus says what the legend said." In 117 A.D. Tacitus could only know about Christ by what reached him from Christian or intermediate circles. He merely reproduced rumors.

(13) What does it matter whether or not Tacitus wrote this passage? He could only have received the information, a hundred years after the time, from people who had told it to others. It doesn't matter, therefore, whether or not the passage is genuine.

(14) In no other part of his writings did Tacitus make the least allusion to "Christ" or "Christians."

(15) Tacitus is also made to say that the Christians took their denomination from Christ which could apply to any of the so-called Christs who were put to death in Judea, including Christ Jesus.

(16) The worshippers of the Sun-god Serapis were also called "Christians." Serapis or Osiris had a large following at Rome especially among the common people.

(17) The expression "Christians" which Tacitus applies to the followers of Jesus, was by no means common in the time of Nero. Not a single Greek or Roman writer of the first century mentions the name. The Christians who called themselves Jessaeans, Nazoraeans, the Elect, the Saints, the Faithful, etc. were universally regarded as Jews. They observed the Mosaic law and the people could not distinguish them from the other Jews. The Greek word Christus (the anointed) for Messiah, and the derivative word, Christian, first came into use under Trajan in the time of Tacitus. Even then, however, the word Christus could not mean Jesus of Nazareth. All the Jews without exception looked forward to a Christus or Messiah. It is, therefore, not clear how the fact of being a "Christian" could, in the time of Nero or of Tacitus, distinguish the followers of Jesus from other believers in a Christus or Messiah. Not one of the gospels applies the name Christians to the followers of Jesus. It is never used in the New Testament as a description of themselves by the believers in Jesus.

(18) Most scholars admit that the works of Tacitus have not been preserved with any degree of fidelity.

(19) This passage - which could have served Christian writers better than any other writing of Tacitus - is not quoted by any of the Christian Fathers. It is not quoted by Tertullian, though he often quoted the works of Tacitus. Tertullian's arguments called for the use of this passage with so loud a voice that his omission of it, if it had really existed, amounted to a violent improbability.

(20) Eusebius in the 4th century cited all the evidence of Christianity obtained from Jewish and pagan sources, but makes no mention of Tacitus.

(21) This passage is not quoted by Clement of Alexandria who at the beginning of the 3rd century set himself entirely to the work of adducing and bringing together all the admissions and recognitions which pagan authors had made of the existence of Christ Jesus or Christians before his time.

(22) Origen in his controversy with Celsus would undoubtedly have used it had it existed.

(23) There is no vestige or trace of this passage anywhere in the world before the 15th century. Its use as part of the evidences of the Christian religion is absolutely modern. Although no reference whatever is made to it by any writer or historian, monkish or otherwise, before the 15th century (1468 A.D.), after that time it is quoted or referred to in an endless list of works.

(24) The fidelity of the passage rests entirely upon the fidelity of one individual (first published in a copy of the annals of Tacitus in the year 1468 by Johannes de Spire of Venice who took his imprint of it from a single manuscript) who would have every opportunity and inducement to insert such an interpolation.

(25) In all the Roman records there was to be found no evidence that Christ was put to death by Pontius Pilate. If genuine, such a sentence would be the most important evidence in pagan literature. How could it have been overlooked for 1360 years?

(26) And lastly, the style of the passage is not consistent with the usually mild and classic language of Tacitus.

http://www.skeptically.org/newtestament/id6.html
User avatar
Leucius Charinus
Posts: 2842
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 4:23 pm
Location: memoriae damnatio

Re: aspects of Tacitus's Annals 15.44

Post by Leucius Charinus »

Thanks Mac,

This is all good material. As you may be aware I do not trust the church organisation one inch. In all the early centuries they have nothing to lose and everything to gain by the forging of literary evidence in support of their own Orwellian agenda ("Who controls the past controls the future; who controls the present controls the past."). The notion that the (utterly depraved) church organisation would not conspire to further their own power, influence and agenda is - to put it plainly - childish and naive.

NOTE: The provenance of the Pliny-Trajan "Christian reference" is even worse that the Tacitus reference because as soon as the discovery was made of this manuscript, and an Aldus printing press run was made, the manuscript was "suddenly lost".




LC
A "cobbler of fables" [Augustine]; "Leucius is the disciple of the devil" [Decretum Gelasianum]; and his books "should be utterly swept away and burned" [Pope Leo I]; they are the "source and mother of all heresy" [Photius]
Post Reply