But I think the key to the whole gospel crucifixion narrative is Jesus carrying the 'sign' (cf. Clement of Alexandria) through the streets. Jesus couldn't have carried an entire 'cross' through Jerusalem. The most likely scenario IMO is him carrying a smaller X shaped object on to which he was crucified and then suspended from a pole. I can't get over the silliness of the idea that he carried a 'cross' heavy enough to suspend his body.
Bottom line: any 'cross' which could be carried by a man wasn't strong enough to suspend him. Again Clement's gospel implicitly assumes an X shaped object - viz. 'sign' - carried by a man through the streets and then (presumably) at the end of his travails that man was fastened to the 'sign' and the 'sign' with the man on it was fastened to a heavy stake and raised into the air.
Last edited by Stephan Huller on Wed Mar 25, 2015 6:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
BTW today is the traditional date of the crucifixion before the corruption of the Roman enforced (c. 190 CE) Sunday based calculation of the crucifixion. Happy Easter.
Peter Kirby wrote: Deciding on this question sort of reminds me of how you can play a tape backwards and hear "here's to my sweet Satan" on it--clearly, after it's pointed out.
So true.
Peter, do you mean the 1971 song Stairway to Heaven by Led Zepplin, or the 1960 song with the same name by Neil Sedaka?
Sedaka's song was, after all, on an album named Neil Sedaka Sings Little Devil and His Other Hits.
And here I thought it was just the phrase "number nine" on the Beatles' song Revolution 9 when played backwards.
Perhaps Tanya could pipe in now about the evils of popular music?
DCH
I don't remember the artist, but I do remember the accidental experiment that we got to participate in, during my sophomore year. We were all asked to do presentations on songs. One of the presenters was playing the tape backwards, to see if the class (a class of thirty) could hear the words. He played it back twice, and nobody heard it, not in the whole class. Only after he told us what we were supposed to hear and played it a third time could anybody go "oh yeah... it says, here's to my sweet satan."
"... almost every critical biblical position was earlier advanced by skeptics." - Raymond Brown
I didn't know you could play a TAPE backwards, but those old reel to reel tape players could do all sorts of neat stuff (I just couldn't afford one in the 70's). We just placed our forefinger on the record and forced the turntable to move in reverse, like DJs do today.
The song you're thinking of was Led Zeppelin's Stairway. If I remember correctly, we also tried the technique on Black Sabbath records, without detecting anything other than gibberish, but there will be persons who will say it is actually the sound of pandemonium from a Dante-esque hell itself.
I could hear the "number nine" on Revolution 9 when played backwards, but that doesn't sound particularly Satanic.
I didn't know you could play a TAPE backwards, but those old reel to reel tape players could do all sorts of neat stuff (I just couldn't afford one in the 70's). We just placed our forefinger on the record and forced the turntable to move in reverse, like DJs do today.
The song you're thinking of was Led Zeppelin's Stairway. If I remember correctly, we also tried the technique on Black Sabbath records, without detecting anything other than gibberish, but there will be persons who will say it is actually the sound of pandemonium from a Dante-esque hell itself.
I could hear the "number nine" on Revolution 9 when played backwards, but that doesn't sound particularly Satanic.
In a January 1982 television programme on the Trinity Broadcasting Network hosted by Paul Crouch, it was claimed that hidden messages were contained in many popular rock songs through a technique called backward masking. One example of such hidden messages that was prominently cited was in "Stairway to Heaven."[42] The alleged message, which occurs during the middle section of the song ("If there's a bustle in your hedgerow, don't be alarmed now...") when played backward, was purported to contain the Satanic references:[43]
Oh, here's to my sweet Satan.
The one whose little path would make me sad, whose power is Satan.
He'll give those with him 666.
There was a little tool shed where he made us suffer, sad Satan.
Various interpretations of the alleged message exist.[44]
Following the claims made in the television program, California assemblyman Phil Wyman proposed a state law that would require warning labels on records containing backward masking. In April 1982, the Consumer Protection and Toxic Materials Committee of the California State Assembly held a hearing on backward masking in popular music, during which "Stairway to Heaven" was played backward. During the hearing, William Yarroll, a self-described "neuroscientific researcher", claimed that backward messages could be deciphered by the human brain.[45]
Various versions of the alleged message exist.[46]
The band itself has for the most part ignored such claims. In response to the allegations, Swan Song Records issued the statement: "Our turntables only play in one direction—forwards." Led Zeppelin audio engineer Eddie Kramer called the allegations "totally and utterly ridiculous. Why would they want to spend so much studio time doing something so dumb?"[47] Robert Plant expressed frustration with the accusations in a 1983 interview in Musician magazine: "To me it's very sad, because 'Stairway to Heaven' was written with every best intention, and as far as reversing tapes and putting messages on the end, that's not my idea of making music."[48]
Once again demonstrating the dangers of allowing elected representatives access to control over legislation...
"... almost every critical biblical position was earlier advanced by skeptics." - Raymond Brown
