Mark --- Are You Makin’ Stuff Up, Again?

[MrMacSon]

Isn't there reference to a John the Baptist character or role in the Dead Sea Scrolls?

eg. http://www.academia.edu/3704367/John_th ... ea_Scrolls

Was baptism widespread before Christianity? Could there have been several baptizers?

[Charles Wilson]

There's no need to posit strange groups of people who left no record of their strange beliefs.

Actually, there is. It's pretty commonplace...

I know, PK, I know. From the Silent Film Era, approx. "80%" of the early acetate films are gone. We can speculate on whether we have all of the Essenay Films or whether the Russians or Argentines hold the Topless Scenes cut from "Metropolis". My problem is one of slight frustration that "Whether the figure John..." represents this or that. The assumptions made about "John" and "Jesus" preclude looking at other options - Foundational Options - because the result must be about the savior/god "Jesus".

Fritz Lang was asked a question about "Metropolis". His response was, "Why ask a question about a film that doesn't exist?" It's important, Fritz, that's why.

I gave a throwaway line about Mucianus in my Post and I believe that Mucianus was the Template for "Paul". I also believe that Mucianus was probably a eunuch. "Was Paul a eunuch?" We can't even get the question started because we all know that "Paul" was somewhere over the rainbow and "Jesus" was somewhere else. Once "Paul" states that his knowledge is from a Vision and the vision trumps reality, there are ramifications of that idea. It's just easier to talk about something else. Mucianus did write about strange religious beliefs he found but, like his books Acta and Epistles, these are lost.

Wait...Acta? Epistles? What could those possibly mean?

Just a little frustration PK, that's all. It's like, "You must turn as a child in order to enter the Realm of Heaven..." What could that POSSIBLY mean? What a puzzle, huh?

Best...

CW

[outhouse]

Isn't there reference to a John the Baptist character or role in the Dead Sea Scrolls?

eg. http://www.academia.edu/3704367/John_th ... ea_Scrolls

Was baptism widespread before Christianity?

The problem is the lack of information from this time period.

Similar forms of ritual immersion were very wide spread.


We know Zealots existed, and we know very little information about this group as a whole.

Could there have been several baptizers?

Is there anyone who states they were the only ones?

[robert j]

With the sole exception of the name “Mary”, the only names in Mark’s tale that apply to multiple characters are the names of Paul’s three pillars from chapter 2 of Galatians. Perhaps the author of gMark used his Baptist as a second character for the name John, to go along with his 4 characters named “Simon” (i.e.Peter/Cephas) and his 3 characters named “James”.

It’s the apostles Peter, James, and John --- Paul’s 3 pillars --- that Mark places in some very significant passages such as the transfiguration and the sorrow in Gethsemane. And it’s no secret that Mark purposely portrays these three, as well as all the apostles, in a negative light.

Admittedly wild speculation in the following --- but after all, much of NT scholarship is as well.

Lighting votive candles, donning a protective amulet, and invoking an incantation to ward-off the on-set of Eisenman-itis --- but how about that James?

Mark left a bit of a riddle with the single mention of a Levi son of Alphaeus. Levi, sitting in the tax collector’s office, encountered Jesus who invited him to follow (Mark 2:14) and Levi hosted Jesus for a meal in his home along with many other tax collectors and sinners (Mark 2:15).

We hear nothing more of this Levi. But Mark introduces, in his list of apostles, a James the son of Alphaeus (in addition to his previously mentioned James the son of Zebedee and brother of John) (Mark 3:18). And like Levi son of Alphaeus, we hear no more of this James son of Alphaeus. It could bear some relevance that the Hebrew origin of the name “Alphaeus” (חֵ֫לֶף) carries the connotation of change, replace, or exchange.

Was Mark taking a shot here? Was Mark associating James --- his apostle and Paul’s pillar --- with Levi the tax collector? James and the other pillars asked Paul in Galatians to “remember the poor”. Many (including Mark?) see this request in Galatians as the impetus for Paul’s collection efforts for the saints in Jerusalem.

Another entry in Mark’s bag of tricks?