Is Jesus birth backdated 70 years from the Temple destructio

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Are you questioning the Josephan dating for the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of it's temple to the Romans?

I'm not sure... It's just that it seems a little *too convenient* that the destruction of the temple happens at that magical septuagint number of 70 AD.

its destruction, which happened in the second year of the reign of Vespasian

Which we can work out: the AD system is based on Dionysius Exiguus using Luke to determine that Jesus was 30 in the 15th year of Tiberius. From there ...based on Roman records... we can work out the time between Tiberius and Vespassian... and the temple destruction just happens to clock in at the 70th (regnal) year of our Lord JC. Dumb luck?

That number meant nothing to Josephus or anybody else at the time. That dating system didn't exist yet and none of the Gospels date Jesus' birth to 1 CE anyway. Matthew sets it at 4-6 BCE and Luke sets it at 6 CE for his nativity, then contradicts himself and sets it at about 1-2 BCE in his baptism narrative. The number 70 is just a coincidence and it's an anachronistic coincidence at that.

[maryhelena]

Check your links!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_of_Kings

The Canon of Kings was a dated list of kings used by ancient astronomers as a convenient means to date astronomical phenomena, such as eclipses. The Canon was preserved by the astronomer Claudius Ptolemy, and is thus known sometimes as Ptolemy's Canon. It is one of the most important bases for our knowledge of ancient chronology.

If Ptolemy "preserved" the list of kings - he did not create it. i.e. the details were already available in some form.

the 69 weeks of years (483 years) spoken about in the book of Daniel, which if subtracted from the given date would mean 457 BC in our system. That year is also the 7th year of Artaxerxes from Ezra 7:7-8

Peter or Maryhelena (or anyone), the actual dating of the reign of Artaxerxes is not given in Scripture. What supplemental resource would the 2nd century author of Luke have used to find that? Would it have been Ptolemy's Canon of Kings?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_of_Kings
http://adamoh.org/TreeOfLife.wan.io/OTC ... eKings.pdf
http://www.livius.org/cg-cm/chronology/canon.html

(which sits squarely in the 2nd century AD)

[Solstice]

Thanks Maryhelena.... I'm satisfied that the 70AD is a coincidence (dumb luck) on account of the Ezra/Daniel/Artaxerxes/Ptolemy/Exiguus thing. Unless if anyone else wants to step forward with any other theories...

If Ptolemy "preserved" the list of kings - he did not create it. i.e. the details were already available in some form.

I'm not doubting you, but does anyone have a source better than Wikipedia? (that wikipedia page has no footnote for that assertion)


Also... does anyone have a link to where I'm sure this has been discussed before: if the Marcionite "Gospel of the Lord" came before the Petrine "Gospel of Luke" then why would the Marcionite be interested in the 15th year of Tiberius? Why would a Marcionite who doesn't care about Judaism be triangulating Daniel & Ezra with the Canon of Kings to get that date?

[maryhelena]

Thanks Maryhelena.... I'm satisfied that the 70AD is a coincidence (dumb luck) on account of the Ezra/Daniel/Artaxerxes/Ptolemy/Exiguus thing. Unless if anyone else wants to step forward with any other theories...

If Ptolemy "preserved" the list of kings - he did not create it. i.e. the details were already available in some form.

I'm not doubting you, but does anyone have a source better than Wikipedia? (that wikipedia page has no footnote for that assertion)

Check out page 155 of your second link above.

Also... does anyone have a link to where I'm sure this has been discussed before: if the Marcionite "Gospel of the Lord" came before the Petrine "Gospel of Luke" then why would the Marcionite be interested in the 15th year of Tiberius? Why would a Marcionite who doesn't care about Judaism be triangulating Daniel & Ezra with the Canon of Kings to get that date?

The JC story is set in Israel. Whatever one's interpretation of that story - one can't change the geography or the political environment in which that story is set. As to why the 15th year of Tiberius was of interest to the NT story writers - that's open to interpretation.....

[Solstice]

I think it is more likely that the ministry of Jesus was tied to a forty-ninth year before the destruction.

Stephen, if you're there, how would this work? Is the number 49 tied to the Daniel prophecy of 7x7 = 49?

[Peter Kirby]

the 69 weeks of years (483 years) spoken about in the book of Daniel, which if subtracted from the given date would mean 457 BC in our system. That year is also the 7th year of Artaxerxes from Ezra 7:7-8

Peter or Maryhelena (or anyone), the actual dating of the reign of Artaxerxes is not given in Scripture. What supplemental resource would the 2nd century author of Luke have used to find that? Would it have been Ptolemy's Canon of Kings?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_of_Kings
http://adamoh.org/TreeOfLife.wan.io/OTC ... eKings.pdf
http://www.livius.org/cg-cm/chronology/canon.html

(which sits squarely in the 2nd century AD)

Very good question.

I don't know, off hand.

I'd probably look into Josephus first, since dependence of Luke on Josephus is suggested otherwise.