Scapegoat Sacrifice and the Crucifixion

[andrewcriddle]

FWIW Origen Homiles on Jeremiah 11 has an interesting passage on Linen from the earth.
generation from earth

Andrew Criddle

[Kunigunde Kreuzerin]

FWIW Origen Homiles on Jeremiah 11 has an interesting passage on Linen from the earth.
generation from earth

Andrew Criddle

Thanks. Very interesting

[Secret Alias]

But why is it also linen? Because it has its generation from earth.43 For it is a plant which rises up from earth, then after it is cultivated, it is combed, washed and wiped clean and with great effort achieves a condition such that it may become a waistcloth or something else. And all of us then have our generation as the waistcloth of God, and since we have our generation from earth, we have need of much preparation so that we might appear yellow, so that we might be washed, in order that we might throw off the color of the earth. For the color of the linen just beginning is one thing, another thing is its color from the effort. And the color of the linen just beginning is darker, but it becomes most bright from the effort. (3) Thus some such process also happens to us who are in generation. We are dark at the beginning in believing — hence in the beginning of the Canticle of Canticles it is said, I am very dark and beautiful,45 and we look like the soul of an Ethiopian at the beginning—then we are cleansed so that we may be more bright according to the passage, "Who is she who comes up whitened?"6 And we become pure white linen.47 Then, when we are worthy to cling to God, we are also woven for the waistcloth of God. God does not take us off. He took off the first people, the whole house of Judah and the house of Israel.48 It happened because they are no longer needed. For he no longer is girded by them. God girded himself with us in place of them. For God did not remain naked when he threw off that waistcloth, for he wove another waistcloth for himself. This waistcloth is the Church, the one from the pagan nations. Let her know that if God did not spare the first peoples, how much more will he not spare her if she sins,49 if she is not worthy of the hips of God. But he who clings to the Lord is one spirit50 with ChristJesus, to whom is the glory and the power for the ages. Amen.

To be certain now all the elements from Secret Mark are demonstrated to be present in Origen's analysis - a resurrection and being buried in the earth (as linen), the high priest dressed initially in linen, his nakedness, his washing, his reclothing himself in another garment. Clearly however different aspects of the paradigm are developed in new ways. One thing to note with especial interest - the significance of color in Origen's formulation:

https://www.academia.edu/2770330/Shades ... _99_1_2006_

I think this goes back to the redemption baptism of those of Mark noted in Irenaeus's summary. Irenaeus writes there that 'whiteness' has a special place among the sectarians:

They maintain that Daniel also set forth the same thing when he begged of the angels explanations of the parables, as being himself ignorant of them. But the angel, hiding from him the great mystery of Bythus, said unto him, "Go thy way quickly, Daniel, for these sayings are closed up until those who have understanding do understand them, and those who are white be made white." Moreover, they vaunt themselves as being the white and the men of good understanding. [Adv Haer 1.19:2]

The passage introduces the Jewish mystical concept of the maskilim - the gnostics - who apparently are washed to be made white (and thus why the ancient Israelites wore bright white linen garments). Earlier in Daniel 12 of these same maskilim it is said that "they will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever." Clement's ideas weren't just passed on to Origen, the entire tradition of Mark developed from well-known mystical concepts in Judaism.

[andrewcriddle]

I don't know about the rest of the North Americans but I can't read the link. It is possible for one of the Europeans to transcribe even a few lines?

This may work
generation from earth
(it uses books.google.com instead of books.google.co.uk)

Andrew Criddle

Corrected
It may work now

[Secret Alias]

Sorry my original browser didn't work. Changing browsers helped. Thank you Andrew. As always I value your input.

[rakovsky]

Judas is understood to have been the crucified one in the Islamic Pseudepigrapha and I think there are a number of good reasons for believing that the Western gospel narrative was ultimately changed to obscure this fact. Consider for a moment the very early and very strong tradition that Judas's name means 'confessor.'

Judas is a curious figure. For example there are two somewhat different stories of how he died in the NT.

But anyway in all the 1st c. writings I know of Jesus is both the crucified sacrifice and the risen Lord. Juda is not mentioned a ton outside the gospels and Acts, where he is the betrayer.
If there was a story like gospel of Judas originally in the 1st c., it's a bit doubtful.

But I do think there is more to the story of Judas than just what is in the NT.