It looks here Jesus, when in heaven, is separated from sinners, and therefore not subjected to their opposition.Heb 7:26 RSV
For it was fitting that we should have such a high priest, holy, blameless, unstained, separated [perfect, passive, participle] from sinners, exalted above the heavens.
"Jesus be damned."Bernard Muller wrote:I remembered that (actually looking at my own website):It looks here Jesus, when in heaven, is separated from sinners, and therefore not subjected to their opposition.Heb 7:26 RSV
For it was fitting that we should have such a high priest, holy, blameless, unstained, separated [perfect, passive, participle] from sinners, exalted above the heavens.
My option 2 looks much better with that.
Cordially, Bernard
Maybe that's not what "separated from sinners" means?in heaven, is separated from sinners, and therefore not subjected to their opposition
It might have something to do with "holy, blameless, unstained" and "exalted above the heavens."For it was fitting that we should have such a high priest, holy, blameless, unstained, separated from sinners, exalted above the heavens.
Christ the Wisdom and Power of God
18 For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written,
“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart.”
20 Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe. 22 For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26 For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise according to worldly standards,[c] not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth. 27 But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; 28 God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, 29 so that no human being[d] might boast in the presence of God. 30 And because of him[e] you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption, 31 so that, as it is written, “Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.”
Proclaiming Christ Crucified
2 And I, when I came to you, brothers,[a] did not come proclaiming to you the testimony of God with lofty speech or wisdom. 2 For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. 3 And I was with you in weakness and in fear and much trembling, 4 and my speech and my message were not in plausible words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, 5 so that your faith might not rest in the wisdom of men[c] but in the power of God.
Wisdom from the Spirit
6 Yet among the mature we do impart wisdom, although it is not a wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are doomed to pass away. 7 But we impart a secret and hidden wisdom of God, which God decreed before the ages for our glory. 8 None of the rulers of this age understood this, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9 But, as it is written,
“What no eye has seen, nor ear heard,
nor the heart of man imagined,
what God has prepared for those who love him”—
10 these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God. 11 For who knows a person's thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. 13 And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual.[d]
14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. 15 The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one. 16 “For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ.
Another way to read the passage is simply to drop our Augustine-influenced theological assumptions. (Augustine invented the Original Sin of Adam doctrine in the way that most Christians reflexively accept it today.) If we allow the spiritual archons (principalities, powers, angels, demons, etc.) who put Christ to the cross to be "sinners," then the rest falls into place in perfect parallel to the 1 Peter passage;18 Servants, be subject to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the unjust. 19 For this is a gracious thing, when, mindful of God, one endures sorrows while suffering unjustly. 20 For what credit is it if, when you sin and are beaten for it, you endure? But if when you do good and suffer for it you endure, this is a gracious thing in the sight of God. 21 For to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, so that you might follow in his steps. 22 He committed no sin, neither was deceit found in his mouth. 23 When he was reviled, he did not revile in return; when he suffered, he did not threaten, but continued entrusting himself to him who judges justly. 24 He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed. 25 For you were straying like sheep, but have now returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.
This sidesteps all the fuss over the verb, by reconsidering the noun "sinners" (τῶν ἁμαρτωλῶν).Hebrews 12:1-4 ~ English Standard Version (ESV)
Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.
Consider him who endured from sinners such hostility against himself, so that you may not grow weary or fainthearted. In your struggle against sin you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood.
"sinner" is plural in Heb 7:26.Jesus was subjected to verbal opposition from a sinner. Presumably while in heaven.
Because of the perfect, passive & participle, the proper translation should be "having been separated from sinners".Maybe that's not what "separated from sinners" means?
Jesus is a high priest in heaven:The word "exalted"--it means "held in high regard." It does not mean "ascended," in case that is part of your confusion here.
No that is not something that I said. You fail at interpreting English. Again.Bernard Muller wrote:to Peter,"sinner" is plural in Heb 7:26.Jesus was subjected to verbal opposition from a sinner. Presumably while in heaven.
"sinner" is plural in Heb 12:3.Because of the perfect, passive & participle, the proper translation should be "having been separated from sinners".Maybe that's not what "separated from sinners" means?
What do you think that means?
Jesus is a high priest in heaven:The word "exalted"--it means "held in high regard." It does not mean "ascended," in case that is part of your confusion here.
Heb 8:1
"Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;"
So according to you, Jesus endured hostility of sinners in heaven (1st quote) but did not ascend to it (last quote)?
That's rather bizarre.
Cordially, Bernard
The connection is about the two different relationships between Jesus and sinners.Peter wrote:
In any case there is no clear connection between Hebrews 12:2 and Hebrews 7:26, in the manner that was suggested. (There, that's a nice way to say it.)
Hebrews 12:1-4 ~ English Standard Version (ESV)
Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.
Consider him who endured from sinners such hostility against himself, so that you may not grow weary or fainthearted. In your struggle against sin you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood.
Hebrews 7:26-28 ~ English Standard Version (ESV)
For it was indeed fitting that we should have such a high priest, holy, innocent, unstained, separated from sinners, and exalted above the heavens. He has no need, like those high priests, to offer sacrifices daily, first for his own sins and then for those of the people, since he did this once for all when he offered up himself. For the law appoints men in their weakness as high priests, but the word of the oath, which came later than the law, appoints a Son who has been made perfect forever.
So what did I fail to interpret? You threw out a few one-liners and I had to work on that.No that is not something that I said. You fail at interpreting English. Again.