Ante-Nicene Pilgrimage Sites

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
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Peter Kirby
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Ante-Nicene Pilgrimage Sites

Post by Peter Kirby » Wed May 27, 2015 11:50 pm

Origen says, around 248 CE, that a cave 'at Bethlehem' was being shown as the location of the birth of Jesus:

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/04161.htm
With respect to the birth of Jesus in Bethlehem, if any one desires, after the prophecy of Micah and after the history recorded in the Gospels by the disciples of Jesus, to have additional evidence from other sources, let him know that, in conformity with the narrative in the Gospel regarding His birth, there is shown at Bethlehem the cave where He was born, and the manger in the cave where He was wrapped in swaddling-clothes. And this sight is greatly talked of in surrounding places, even among the enemies of the faith, it being said that in this cave was born that Jesus who is worshipped and reverenced by the Christians.
Eusebius quotes from Hegesippus on James the Just, concluding by saying (presumably in Hegesippus' words):

http://peterkirby.com/chasing-hegesippus.html
And thus he suffered martyrdom. And they buried him on the spot, by the temple, and his monument still remains by the temple. He became a true witness, both to Jews and Greeks, that Jesus is the Christ.
Eusebius refers to two monuments in Ephesus for 'John'.

http://peterkirby.com/johns-priestly-pe ... rates.html
Eusebius, in his discussion of Dionysius of Alexandria regarding Revelation, states, “But I think that he was some other one of those in Asia; as they say that there are two monuments in Ephesus, each bearing the name of John.” (ἄλλον δέ τινα οἶμαι τῶν ἐν Ἀσίᾳ γενομένων, ἐπεὶ καὶ δύο φασὶν ἐν Ἐφέσῳ γενέσθαι μνήματα καὶ ἑκάτερον Ἰωάννου λέγεσθαι. E.H. 7.25.16)

Jerome writes that 2 and 3 John “are said to be the work of John the presbyter to the memory of whom another sepulchre is shown at Ephesus to the present day, though some think that there were two memorials of this same John the evangelist.” (Joannis presbyteri asseruntur, cujus et hodie alterum sepulcrum apud Ephesum ostenditur, etsi nonnulli putant duas memorias ejusdem Joannis Evangelistae esse – Lives of Illustrious Men, 9)

An 8th century text (Mingana Syriac 540) refers to “two graves in Ephesus – one concealed, namely the Evangelist’s, the other being that of John his disciple, who wrote the revelation.” The concealment here may refer to a building on its spot, as there was a basilica dedicated to John the evangelist in Ephesus
Matthew 27:7-8 (might not count...)
And they conferred together and with the money bought the Potter's Field as a burial place for strangers. For this reason that field has been called the Field of Blood to this day.
Mark 6:29 (might not count...)
When his disciples heard about this, they came and took away his body and laid it in a tomb.
Others...

https://books.google.com/books?id=KWAXbCNxH6YC&pg=PA322
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Can you think of other examples? (Other than the supposed tomb/s of Jesus?)
"... almost every critical biblical position was earlier advanced by skeptics." - Raymond Brown

perseusomega9
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Re: Ante-Nicene Pilgrimage Sites

Post by perseusomega9 » Thu May 28, 2015 3:25 am

Wasn't there supposed to be a statue of Jesus healing the women with the issue of blood?
The metric to judge if one is a good exegete: the way he/she deals with Barabbas.

Who disagrees with me on this precise point is by definition an idiot.
-Giuseppe

StephenGoranson
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Re: Ante-Nicene Pilgrimage Sites

Post by StephenGoranson » Thu May 28, 2015 4:16 am

Though I don't have a copy at hand, Joan E. Taylor's 1993 book Christians and the Holy Places might be worth a look. Her views changed somewhat in her article "Golgotha: A Reconsideration of the Evidence for the Sites of Jesus' Crucifixion and Burial" New Testament Studies, 44 no 2 Ap 1998, p 180-203, which includes analysis of what Melito of Sardis wrote about Jerusalem.

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