Pseudo-Origen's Homily on Jeremiah & the Words of the Savior

[Tenorikuma]

My title is tongue-in-cheek, based on Peter's stylometric results suggesting that Origen's Homily on Jeremiah is actually by Clement of Alexandria.

Anyway, I decided to check out this document I have never heard of and found a translation I can preview at Google Books.
https://books.google.com/books?id=I2g1z_oltV8C

I'm a few pages in, and the author is on a theological tangent about the speech of the Savior rather than anything specific to Jeremiah. And then, in Book I §8.5 he makes the odd statement that seems to be about the incarnation. (I am adding Scriptural citations in brackets.)

…The Savior, when he is in the Father [John 14.10-11], and sharing in the magnificence of the glory of God, does not speak human words—he does not know how to articulate to those below him—but when he comes into a human body, he says, according to the initial words, I do not know how to speak for I am a youth. [Jer 1:6] He is a youth because of his bodily birth, an elder according to the words, first fruit of all creation [Col. 1.15], a young because he came at the completion of the ages [Heb. 9.26] And … [possible lacuna] he has appeared later in life.

I find it kind of weird that the author is using Jeremiah as a source of information about the first words of Jesus. "I do not know how to speak, for I am a youth" is, after all, Jeremiah 1:6. And with its juxtaposition to the statement about the womb, the writer infers that these are the Savior's first words out of the womb.

I'm having difficulty understanding what "he has appeared later in life" means. I keep imagining the Marcionite view that Jesus just appeared in Galilee as an adult to begin his ministry, but maybe there's a more obvious explanation.

[Secret Alias]

http://ixoyc.net/data/Fathers/503.pdf

[Tenorikuma]

Is any particular page better than the rest?

[Secret Alias]

Start with Clement. It's at the beginning.

[Tenorikuma]

Thanks.

[Secret Alias]

Alexandrians believed that Jesus (or Christ) kept being incarnated in successive human bodies.

[Ben C. Smith]

I'm having difficulty understanding what "he has appeared later in life" means. I keep imagining the Marcionite view that Jesus just appeared in Galilee as an adult to begin his ministry, but maybe there's a more obvious explanation.

Well, I suspect the probable lacuna makes it hard to figure out what was originally meant. Here is the Greek of that passage:

«Οὐκ ἐπίσταμαι λαλεῖν, ὅτι νεώτερος ἐγώ εἰμι», νεώτερος δὲ διὰ τὴν γένεσιν τὴν σωματικήν, πρεσβύτερος δὲ κατὰ τὸ «πρωτότοκος πάσης κτίσεως», νεώτερος, ὅτι «ἐπὶ συντελείᾳ τῶν αἰώνων» ἦλθεν <καὶ> ὕστερον τῷ βίῳ ἐπιδεδήμηκε.

That underlined καὶ is the and of footnote 69, which suggests that Cordier (I assume this is Balthasar Cordier of Antwerp) had πρεσβύτερος there originally, and someone emended it simply to make sense of the sentence. But of course elder is probably the original reading, in contrast to youth in the previous line:

He is a youth because of his bodily birth,
an elder according to the words, first fruit of all creation,
a youth because he came at the completion of the ages,
an elder * he has appeared later in life.

The asterisk marks the location of the probable lacuna. The other 3 statements seem so random to me that I confess I cannot at this time guess what might have originally filled the gap: an elder [because... blah blah blah] {he/she/it} has appeared later in life.

Ben.

[Tenorikuma]

Thanks, Ben.

[Peter Kirby]

My title is tongue-in-cheek, based on Peter's stylometric results suggesting that Origen's Homily on Jeremiah is actually by Clement of Alexandria.

Anyway, I decided to check out this document I have never heard of and found a translation I can preview at Google Books.
https://books.google.com/books?id=I2g1z_oltV8C

…The Savior, when he is in the Father [John 14.10-11], and sharing in the magnificence of the glory of God, does not speak human words—he does not know how to articulate to those below him—but when he comes into a human body, he says, according to the initial words, I do not know how to speak for I am a youth. [Jer 1:6] He is a youth because of his bodily birth, an elder according to the words, first fruit of all creation [Col. 1.15], a young because he came at the completion of the ages [Heb. 9.26] And … [possible lacuna] he has appeared later in life.

You are reading Homily 1 on Jeremiah. This text was identified as (more like) Origen's (than anyone else). Please refer back to that post on Origen:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1600

Five samples are taken of the homilies known as 'In Jeremiam'. The samples are taken along homily divisions: 1st Homily (3355 words), 2nd-4th Homily (2726 words), 5th Homily (4047 words), 6th-8th Homily (3866 words), and 9th-11th Homily (3922 words). Direct quotes were removed first. For all five, Origen rated more highly than Eusebius. The second sample (2nd-4th Homily), the fourth sample (6th-8th Homily), and the fifth sample (9th-11th Homily), however, were rated more highly for one of the controls. One possible explanation of this data is that the two longer homilies were genuinely Origen's (the 1st and the 5th), while the shorter ones were added to the collection but were not Origen's.

Two samples (3421 and 3139 words in length) were taken of another homily on Jeremiah ('Fragmenta in Jeremiam') known through the catenae. Direct quotes were removed first. Both of these two samples provided a dramatically better match with Clement of Alexandria than they did with Origen (Clement's p-value of 0.183 to Origen's 0.082 and Clement's p-value of 0.112 to Origen's 0.061). Clement of Alexandria was the best match for each sample. One possible explanation is that a homily written by Clement of Alexandria later circulated under the name of Origen. Whether this is actually true requires further analysis.

The "fragments from the catena" of "on Jeremiah" (which were closest to Clement of Alexandria) begin here:

https://books.google.com/books?id=UFInXpKNapEC&pg=PA280

[Tenorikuma]

Ah, thanks for the clarification.