As if we needed more proof that it is a mysterious and confusing topic at best...outhouse wrote:Probably just easier to say Galilean then Nazoreans which many will associate with a later cult.
I would have to say John the Baptist movement is the earliest possible movement we can trace anything back with any plausibility. I would lean towards a Aramaic Apocalyptic Zealot movement if I had to use a label.
You're just reading the titles and putting your interpretation on them, generating some kind of introspective commentary. It's not relevant to what is quoted. Paul claimed to be an "apostle" (or, the letters of Paul claimed the implied author, Paul, to be an "apostle"). The title used here equated the so-called "apostolic" movement to whatever Paul was part of (or, whatever the original author of the letters were).I think this is a later Hellenistic invention based on the legends surrounding the "inner circle" oral traditions. Later mythology included 12 and the Apostolic Movement much of which Paul used rhetorically.•2) The Apostolic Movement,
You throw around the word "later," ex cathedra, like you had the authority of God Himself to decide what is and is not "later." And by "later," you apparently mean what most Christians basically mean when they apply the label "later" to the Gnostics, i.e., that they are weird and unorthodox and unworthy of serious study (with serious study going to those "early" New Testament folks).Also a later movement based on the wide diversity in multiple cultures the mythology grew in.3) The Jewish Gnostics
In any case, you were replying to a comment about pre-Christian Jewish Gnostics. If they existed, they are "early," even "earlier," just by definition.
And by "much later," you mean earlier than most of our literary evidence and earlier than the catholic church organization (and someone who is one of the earliest recorded sources for some of our earliest sources, i.e., a Gospel and the Paulines), including earlier than Acts, Papias, Polycarp, the Pastoral Epistles, Hegesippus, Justin, Tatian, Athenagoras of Athens, Dionysius of Corinth, Theophilus of Antioch, Polycrates of Ephesus, Irenaeus of Lyons, Clement of Alexandria, Origen, Hippolytus, Tertullian, etc., etc., etc.Much later movementThe Marcionite movement,
At any event, I already put a (non-subjective, non-value-laden, non-relative) timeframe on the origin of the Marcionite movement: somewhere in the period ca. 70-120, between the Jewish wars.