A Summary History of Christian Origins?

[Tenorikuma]

I would assume nothing more than that Paul originally proselytized on behalf of Torah-observant Judaism to suppress sectarian movements, but then changed tracks and embraced the Christ cult.

We need look no farther than today's intra-church disputes to see the shrill rhetoric that can accompany non-violent theological disagreements.

[outhouse]

https://books.google.com/books?id=0nkmNGjJh1AC&pg=PA59

Thanks Peter I am aware of Dougs opinion, but Doug has a very narrow view of Paul. I respect his view but would trust you more then him.

He states Paul was a Pharisee as to where I feel that is a rhetorical title. Pauls Judaism is heavily debated today, but he was a Hellenist who had no problem perverting Judaism as Hellenist were know to.

[outhouse]

I would assume nothing more than that Paul originally proselytized on behalf of Torah-observant Judaism to suppress sectarian movements, but then changed tracks and embraced the Christ cult.

We need look no farther than today's intra-church disputes to see the shrill rhetoric that can accompany non-violent theological disagreements.

It all tracks back to Paul's Judaism and for me the proof is in the pudding. What did he teach? it was in line with Hellenistic Judaism and people who had perverted the religion for a long time.

The Pharisees were split on this Hellenism as well, so I leave room open but still have doubts. The movement was small at that time and they were not all that open by our best guesses meeting around dinner tables with like minded people, so I find Pauls voice alone to be useless during this time period to combat a movement that mirrored his own beliefs of Judaism light.

[outhouse]

Were many early Christian leaders said to be stoned? I mean murdered? Stephen and James the Just?

Now Paul imprisons many Christians. "According to Acts"

So I ask you, what was it like being sent to prison during these times? I would think this would be a regional answer more then something with any certainty.

[outhouse]

Is it safe to say the only reason Paul was not murdered, was because he probably was a Roman citizen of some sort?

[Peter Kirby]

Is it safe to say the only reason Paul was not murdered, was because he probably was a Roman citizen of some sort?

Could be. Roman citizens were much better protected against the summary judgments of regional governors than peregrini were.

[Peter Kirby]

Is it safe to say the only reason Paul was not murdered, was because he probably was a Roman citizen of some sort?

Could be. Roman citizens were much better protected against the summary judgments of regional governors than peregrini were.

BTW, the opinion that this is true of the author of Revelation is very likely correct.

The punishment of exile to an island (not execution) indicates high status and, at minimum, citizenship.

I've got an essay about it:

http://peterkirby.com/johns-priestly-pe ... rates.html

I wouldn't be surprised if the same thing applied to the author of the Pauline letters.

Philippians 4:22 has often been read as implying that the letter was written while the author was imprisoned at Rome.

"All the saints greet you, especially those of Caesar's household."

[Ben C. Smith]

I've got an essay about it:

http://peterkirby.com/johns-priestly-pe ... rates.html

I read that blog post of yours a few months ago with great interest. I was wondering.... Do you have any thoughts on how the gospel and epistles of John fit into the picture?

Ben.

[outhouse]

Thanks Peter good read. Clicked the light on in a few places as far as my own errors in methodology.

With Tertullian’s description in A.H. 36.3 of this John with the legal language in insulam relegatur (island exile), Tertullian implies that John belonged to the class of honestiores and received a punishment of exile instead of death because of his legal status. - See more at: http://peterkirby.com/johns-priestly-pe ... jVbi6.dpuf

Just wanted to bring up the relevant quote that applied.

I tried looking up punishment for non citizens some time ago and police action during the first century pre temple fall, and the best I could find was that you paid for police action, citizen or not. And for oppressed Jews it was rather brutal. BUT What im more interested in is the punishment for the typical uneducated Hellenist in the diaspora, if you knew of any decent sources.

[outhouse]

In Pauls time.

Would have there been a "praemium" on all members of this new movement ?


I personally could see this early on as a trouble maker in the temple could literally bring the temple to the ground. So followers should be handled asap before it got out of hand. I think after a few years Paul or who hired him, realized this new movement was not the same dangerous Galilean movement and that it had spread to quickly to stop.

The same way the gospel authors had to walk a tightrope, and not imply they were opposed to Roman authority, or its true actions of killing their savior or its actions against them early on minimizing the Roman actions against them in their literature. The divorce of Hellenistic Judaism from cultural Judaism made the perfect scapegoats.

I have always found that Caiaphas and Pilates lives depended on peace, and that they knew the temple was shaking Roman ground that could collapse at any moment. They were walking a tightrope. So I personally see a "praemium" on sect members as a cheap insurance against future possible martyr's following the Galilean.


Was Pauls role a "delatores" ?????????