Who's afraid of Jesus Terminator?

[Giuseppe]

Luke 8
28 When he saw Jesus, he cried out and fell at his feet, shouting at the top of his voice, “What do you want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg you, don’t torture me!”
29 For Jesus had commanded the impure spirit to come out of the man. Many times it had seized him, and though he was chained hand and foot and kept under guard, he had broken his chains and had been driven by the demon into solitary places.

It's attested in Evangelion this:

8:28 Ἰησοῦ υἱὲ τοῦ θεοῦ . . . μή με βασανίσῃς.

My theory:

the possessed man of Gerasa mistakenly believe that Jesus is the Messiah of the Creator god and therefore preceded by his reputation of being sadistically cruel in his exasperated sense of justice.

Hence the real terror that attacks him.

But the proto-catholic Luke inserted the first half of next verse Luke 8:29 (not attested in Evangelion) because he had every reason to point out that he was not the man to be frightened, but the demon that possessed him. Hence the tone oddly apologetic, defensive, of the verse 8:29.

If it's true that the episode is based on Polypheme story in Odissey, we would expect that was the man the author of these words ''What do you want with me, ... beg you, don’t torture me!'' and not others.

[Thor]

Luke 8
28 When he saw Jesus, he cried out and fell at his feet, shouting at the top of his voice, “What do you want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg you, don’t torture me!”

Does it say torture?

[Ben C. Smith]

Luke 8
28 When he saw Jesus, he cried out and fell at his feet, shouting at the top of his voice, “What do you want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg you, don’t torture me!”

Does it say torture?

Yes, torture is an acceptable translation of βασανίζω.

Read what happens to the seven brothers and the mother in 2 Maccabees 7 and consider that it is called torture in verses 8 and 13 (the latter having the verb, the former having the cognate noun; in verse 17, torture is promised the king in retribution).

Ben.

[Thor]

Yes, torture is an acceptable translation of βασανίζω.

What I meant was in relation to your citation/quotation of Luke 8:28. Where did you get it from? Are you citing a source or yourself?

This:

Luke 8
28 When he saw Jesus, he cried out and fell at his feet, shouting at the top of his voice, “What do you want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg you, don’t torture me!”
29 For Jesus had commanded the impure spirit to come out of the man. Many times it had seized him, and though he was chained hand and foot and kept under guard, he had broken his chains and had been driven by the demon into solitary places.

[Ben C. Smith]

Yes, torture is an acceptable translation of βασανίζω.

What I meant was in relation to your citation/quotation of Luke 8:28. Where did you get it from? Are you citing a source or yourself?

Several translations use torture: ISV, NIV, NLT, GW... http://biblehub.com/luke/8-28.htm. It appears Giuseppe used the NIV.

Ben.

[Roger Pearse]

Has anybody noticed that this site is copying the contents of this forum?

http://christianorigins.com/link/2015/0 ... minator-3/

I noticed them reposting my blog posts. Then I found that link.

[Ben C. Smith]

Has anybody noticed that this site is copying the contents of this forum?

http://christianorigins.com/link/2015/0 ... minator-3/

I noticed them reposting my blog posts. Then I found that link.

Hi, Roger. That is the newest Peter Kirby effort, initiated at least partly in order to publicize the forum; see here for details: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1653.

Ben.

[Thor]

But the proto-catholic Luke inserted the first half of next verse Luke 8:29 (not attested in Evangelion) because he had every reason to point out that he was not the man to be frightened, but the demon that possessed him. Hence the tone oddly apologetic, defensive, of the verse 8:29.

Mark 5:6 He shouted at the top of his voice, "What do you want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? In God's name don't torture me!"
Mark 5:7 For Jesus had said to him, "Come out of this man, you impure spirit!"

Is this also a "proto-caholic" insertion?

[DCHindley]

The reference may be to the fate of the watchers and the spirits of their human children, the giants.

1 Enoch 10:9 And to Gabriel said the Lord: 'Proceed against the bastards and the reprobates, and against the children of fornication: and destroy [[the children of fornication and]] the children of the Watchers from amongst men: [[and cause them to go forth]]: send them one against the other that they may destroy each other in battle: for length of days shall they not have. 10 And no request that they (i.e. their fathers) make of thee shall be granted unto their fathers on their behalf; for they hope to live an eternal life, and that each one of them will live five hundred years.' 11 And the Lord said unto Michael: 'Go, bind Semjaza and his associates who have united themselves with women so as to have defiled themselves with them in all their uncleanness. 12 And when their sons have slain one another, and they have seen the destruction of their beloved ones, bind them fast for seventy generations in the valleys of the earth, till the day of their judgement and of their consummation, till the judgement that is for ever and ever is consummated.

10:13 In those days they shall be led off to the abyss of fire: and to the torment and the prison in which they shall be confined for ever.
10:13 τότε ἀπαχθήσονται εἰς τὸ χάος τοῦ πυρὸς καὶ εἰς τὴν βάσανον καὶ εἰς τὸ δεσμωτήριον συνκλείσεως αἰῶνος.

DCH

[Giuseppe]

But the proto-catholic Luke inserted the first half of next verse Luke 8:29 (not attested in Evangelion) because he had every reason to point out that he was not the man to be frightened, but the demon that possessed him. Hence the tone oddly apologetic, defensive, of the verse 8:29.

Mark 5:6 He shouted at the top of his voice, "What do you want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? In God's name don't torture me!"
Mark 5:7 For Jesus had said to him, "Come out of this man, you impure spirit!"

Is this also a "proto-caholic" insertion?

I find suspect that the canonical evangelists before describe the reaction of the man ('don't torture me', etc) and only after explain it (apology?) saying that Jesus 'had said him' before that same reaction.
It would be more expected, in my opinion, this sequence:
Mark 5:7 ---> Mark 5:6
and not viceversa.

It would be more expected, in my opinion, that in a original version of that story, the possessed man said those words of awe at the first sight of Jesus, not following (in a cause-effect link) his explicit rebuke.