An inventory of references to the mystery of Christ.

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Ben C. Smith
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Re: An inventory of references to the mystery of Christ.

Post by Ben C. Smith »

robert j wrote:Paul’s rhetoric is all about maintaining his authority (and hence his potential for compensation). Paul’s authority was dependent upon his congregations accepting the story of his Christ spirit that he had told them during his evangelizing visit. That story, and all the associated implications that Paul heaped upon it, constituted “the gospel”.

....

In the end, it's just Paul working hard to maintain his authority and his leadership --- his path to god through his Christ.

As an example, the Corinthians seemed to have trouble accepting Paul’s concept of the resurrection of the dead --- for Paul, a concept central to “the gospel”. See this OP ---
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1383

Paul seems to have finally lost most of the Corinthians after they had been visited by Jewish missionaries that apparently presented dazzling mystical exegeses on Moses. See this OP (part 2) ---
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=785

IMO, the Corinthian correspondence becomes easier to understand if the work of the final compiler is sorted out and the multiple letters are rearranged into a set closer to their original form by using the various subplots to restore the chronological sequence. See this OP (parts one and two) ---
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=829
andrewcriddle wrote:IMO the 'other gospel' involved presenting Jesus as being put to death for his loyalty to Torah, with this faithfulness to Torah being vindicated by God raising him from the dead.
Thanks, both of you. Much to consider.
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Re: An inventory of references to the mystery of Christ.

Post by Ben C. Smith »

Just getting these passages in plain view....

Wisdom existing from (before) the beginning (my step 0) may be found in Proverbs 8.22-31 NASB:

22 “The Lord possessed me at the beginning of His way,
Before His works of old.
23 From everlasting [πρὸ τοῦ αἰῶνος] I was established,
From the beginning [ἐν ἀρχῇ], from the earliest times of the earth.
24 When there were no depths I was brought forth,
When there were no springs abounding with water.
25 Before the mountains were settled,
Before the hills I was brought forth;
26 While He had not yet made the earth and the fields,
Nor the first dust of the world.
27 “When He established the heavens, I was there,
When He inscribed a circle on the face of the deep,
28 When He made firm the skies above,
When the springs of the deep became fixed,
29 When He set for the sea its boundary
So that the water would not transgress His command,
When He marked out the foundations of the earth;
30 Then I was beside Him, as a master workman;
And I was daily His delight,
Rejoicing always before Him,
31 Rejoicing in the world, His earth,
And having my delight in the sons of men.”

Confer Wisdom of Sirach 24.1-9 RSV:

1 Wisdom will praise herself, and will glory in the midst of her people. 2 In the assembly of the Most High she will open her mouth, and in the presence of his host she will glory: 3 "I came forth from the mouth of the Most High, and covered the earth like a mist. 4 I dwelt in high places, and my throne was in a pillar of cloud. 5 Alone I have made the circuit of the vault of heaven and have walked in the depths of the abyss. 6 In the waves of the sea, in the whole earth, and in every people and nation I have gotten a possession. 7 Among all these I sought a resting place; I sought in whose territory I might lodge. 8 "Then the Creator of all things gave me a commandment, and the one who created me assigned a place for my tent. And he said, `Make your dwelling in Jacob, and in Israel receive your inheritance.' 9 From eternity [πρὸ τοῦ αἰῶνος], in the beginning [ἀπ᾽ ἀρχῆς], he created me, and for eternity I shall not cease to exist.

Wisdom being hidden and therefore available only to select persons (my step 1) may be found in Job 28.12-22 NASB:

12 “But where can wisdom be found?
And where is the place of understanding?
13 Man does not know its value,
Nor is it found in the land of the living.
14 The deep says, ‘It is not in me’;
And the sea says, ‘It is not with me.’
15 Pure gold cannot be given in exchange for it,
Nor can silver be weighed as its price.
16 It cannot be valued in the gold of Ophir,
In precious onyx, or sapphire.
17 Gold or glass cannot equal it,
Nor can it be exchanged for articles of fine gold.
18 Coral and crystal are not to be mentioned;
And the acquisition of wisdom is above that of pearls.
19 The topaz of Ethiopia cannot equal it,
Nor can it be valued in pure gold.
20 Where then does wisdom come from?
And where is the place of understanding?
21 Thus it is hidden [λέληθεν] from the eyes of all living
And concealed
[ἐκρύβη] from the birds of the sky.
22 Abaddon and Death say,
‘With our ears we have heard a report of it.’

Confer Wisdom of Sirach 6.22 RSV:

22 For wisdom is like her name, and is not manifest [φανερά] to many.

Wisdom of Solomon 8.4 RSV:

4 For she [Wisdom] is an initiate [μύστις, literally mystic or mystagogue] in the knowledge of God, and an associate in his works.

Wisdom of Solomon 9.9-15 RSV:

9 With thee is wisdom, who knows thy works and was present when thou didst make the world, and who understands what is pleasing in thy sight and what is right according to thy commandments. 10 Send her forth from the holy heavens, and from the throne of thy glory send her, that she may be with me and toil, and that I may learn what is pleasing to thee. 11 For she knows and understands all things, and she will guide me wisely in my actions and guard me with her glory. 12 Then my works will be acceptable, and I shall judge thy people justly, and shall be worthy of the throne of my father. 13 For what man can learn the counsel of God? Or who can discern what the Lord wills? 14 For the reasoning of mortals is worthless, and our designs are likely to fail, 15 for a perishable body weighs down the soul, and this earthy tent burdens the thoughtful mind.

Ben.
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Re: An inventory of references to the mystery of Christ.

Post by andrewcriddle »

Ben C. Smith wrote:A definite pattern seems to emerge from the texts presented in the OP. This pattern seems based on a template provided by 1 Enoch 61.10-12, or one very much like it:

Enoch 61:10 Then shall the kings, the princes, and all who possess the earth, glorify him who has dominion over all things, him who was concealed; for from the beginning the Son of man existed in secret [0], whom the Most High preserved in the presence of his power, and revealed to the elect [1].
Enoch 61:11 He shall sow the congregation of the saints, and of the elect; and all the elect shall stand before him in that day.
Enoch 61:12 All the kings, the princes, the exalted, and those who rule over all the earth, shall fall down on their faces before him, and shall worship him [2].

The revelation of the son of man proceeds over three distinct steps in this passage:

0. No revelation at all; from the beginning he exists in secret, and is known only to the most high God.
1. Revelation only to the elect (call this 1a); some passages will add that the elect are to preach this revelation to the world (call this 1b).
2. Revelation to the entire world; no preaching by the elect needed for this one; it will be obvious to all.

.
Sjoberg uses Enoch in a somewhat similar way. But he is clearly a historicist. The revelation known only to the elect is that the historical Jesus is really the heavenly son of man in disguise.

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Re: An inventory of references to the mystery of Christ.

Post by Ben C. Smith »

andrewcriddle wrote:Sjoberg uses Enoch in a somewhat similar way. But he is clearly a historicist. The revelation known only to the elect is that the historical Jesus is really the heavenly son of man in disguise.
Thanks for the link. I do appreciate that the theme of secrecy itself does not seem to very well distinguish between a minimal historicism and the kind of mythicism I am evaluating.

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Re: An inventory of references to the mystery of Christ.

Post by RParvus »

Open questions: Is Paul worried about gospels that are preaching a noncrucified Christ? Or is he worried about gospels that are misinterpreting a crucified Christ? If the former, why does he spend virtually all his time (in Galatians, for example) decrying gentile circumcision rather than more directly attacking the opposing storyline? If the latter, what does it mean, then (in some way that does not blunt the sharpness of the accusation), to preach another Jesus? What are the merits of each case?

Ben.
A few thoughts:

From what Paul says in the CorInthian and Galatian letters, it is not clear that his opponents denied (yet?) a crucified Christ storyline. It seems rather that they were sidelining it by adding and emphasizing things that Paul did not consider part of the gospel message.

Possibly related to this: 3:21-31 of the Ascension of Isaiah is a passage that most scholars date later than the Vision (chapters 6-11 of the AoI). Some scholars (e.g., Norelli, Knight, Hall) hold that the passage reflects the situation of the author who wrote it. He has Isaiah foretell that Christian shepherds and elders will eventually make the visions “ineffective” (AoI 3:30) and will instead preach “after the impulses of their own heart.” (AoI 3:31). It is thought that the author of the AoI is here complaining that — in his own day — Christian leaders were turning away from the Vision (AoI 6-11) in favor of some other message. Norelli, Knight and Hall would locate that turning away sometime at the end of the first or beginning of the second century. I suspect it could have been as early as the 50s or 60s and that in Corinthians and Galatians we are seeing it through Paul’s eyes. If the Vision of Isaiah was the original source of belief in a crucified Christ, the sidelining of Isaiah’s Vision could correspond to the sidelining of belief in Christ crucified.

But sidelined in favor of what?

Wells and Doherty see the hypothetical Q as originally being some kind of gospel. If that is right it may be that the other gospel at Corinth and in the Galatian churches was the Q gospel. It lacked — or at least neglected — the Son’s crucifixion. In 1 Corinthians Paul characterizes the other gospel as being a wisdom that is only of man and of this world. That could apply to Q which looks like some kind of Jewish version of Cynic/Stoic wisdom. It urged perfect living in imitation of God (Mt. 5:48) but had a this-worldly aspect. The “wise” (Mt. 7:24) ones were those who carried out Q’s precepts, since in God’s soon-to-arrive kingdom they will receive all kinds of earthly rewards from him (e.g., Mt. 6:4; 6:6; 6:18; 6:20; 6:33). To compete with this Paul had to present his crucified Christ gospel as a higher form of wisdom, one that is not of this world and, moreover, is supported by a privileged scripture (the Vision of Isaiah?): Do not go beyond what is written (1 Cor. 4:6).

Paul’s opponents at Corinth apparently did not push the Law or circumcision. It is hard to know why, but one possibility is that Paul’s converts there were drawn primarily from Gentiles already familiar with the Law (i.e., God-fears or proselytes who had already received circumcision) and Jews. That may not have been the case in his Galatian churches. If the Galatian Christians were only recently converted from paganism (as Paul's mention of the stoicheia may indicate), any proponents of a Q gospel would have had to first preach the basics of Judaism. Those basics would have included the Law of Moses, for that Law is the necessary reference point for Q wisdom (see Mt. 5:17-20) which then proceeds to go beyond it. Not a jot or tittle of the Law can pass away until all things have taken place.
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