Syriac recension of Ignatius

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Peter Kirby
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Syriac recension of Ignatius

Post by Peter Kirby »

I am reading your book on your blog, Stephan, and I came to this point:
For the reader will discover there that the third letter is never called 'to the Romans' but either 'the Third Epistle' or 'the Third Epistle of the Same St. Ignatius.' Yet far more significant is the fact that the first epistle the name Polycarp isn't actually used in the inscription. The name appears in the title merely because we are so used to the expanded 'middle recension.' There are three Syriac mss - the first, "The Epistle of my lord Ignatius, the bishop" in the second, "The Epistle of Ignatius;" and in the third, "The Epistle of Ignatius, bishop of Antioch." The name 'Polycarp' only is added in the subscription likely by a later hand and the name appears nowhere in the main body of the letter.
I'm trying to verify this, but so far coming up empty.

Here is the ANF version:
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.v.x.html

"Ignatius, who is [also called] Theophorus, to Polycarp, bishop of Smyrna, or rather, who has as his own bishop God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ: [wishes] abundance of happiness."

Here is the Cureton version:
google books

"Ignatius, who is Theophoros, to Polycarp Bishop of Smyrna, who himself rather is visited by God the Father and by Jesus Christ our Lord, much peace."

Both of the translations put "Polycarp" in the Syriac text. If I had some facility with Syriac, which I do not, I might be able to compare this against Cureton's Syriac edition.

What is the basis for claiming that the name Polycarp doesn't appear in the Syriac version of Ignatius?
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Re: Syriac recension of Ignatius

Post by stephan happy huller »

Hi Peter

I am tired but I will try to answer this as best I can before I go to bed. Remember this is a book in the sense that it is an unedited manuscript. As I noted today in the comments section of my blog to two scholars, I always send these drafts to 'real academics' who happen to be friends and then I ask them to butcher the manuscript and if I can live with their changes then I decide to pursue publication. One of the reasons I never published 'Against Polycarp' (a book Bob Price mentions often) is the fact that David Trobisch's introduction to the first edition read something like 'it's a book I like to read when I want a vacation from scholarship' or something like that. I am only being honest.

So the key sentence is:

The name 'Polycarp' only is added in the subscription likely by a later hand and the name appears nowhere in the main body of the letter.

To me 'the main body of the letter' means the portion after the line you just cited. My supposition is that:

1. the Syriac is more original than either Greek rescensions.
2. but the Syriac is not the original - but it probably represents the stage of the letters known to Lucian (see Lightfoot).

I have never actually published anything on this subject. My original thesis was that Polycarp corrupted Ignatius. In due course however - heavily under my assumption that Peregrinus is Polycarp - I have reconsidered my original assumption and simply assumed that Irenaeus was embarrassed by Lucian's Death of Peregrinus and so distinguished Polycarp the martyr who famously died by fire from a fictitious Church Father named 'fiery one' (= Ignatius) who died by wild beasts.

Lucian already knew of a corrupted version of the letters of the anonymous Christian martyr who died by fire (c. 165 CE) i.e. written after his death by 'underworld couriers' (sarcastically). Lucian reports there were many attempts to die by fire on the martyr's part. The addition of the introduction which distinguishes between Ignatius and Polycarp was the first step in the emancipation process of the embarrassing history associated with Irenaeus's master. Syriac is closer to the original but is not the original correspondence of Polycarp. The manuscript is over three years old so that's the best I can remember the original argument.
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Re: Syriac recension of Ignatius

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stephan happy huller wrote:The name 'Polycarp' only is added in the subscription likely by a later hand and the name appears nowhere in the main body of the letter.

To me 'the main body of the letter' means the portion after the line you just cited. My supposition is that:

1. the Syriac is more original than either Greek rescensions.
2. but the Syriac is not the original - but it probably represents the stage of the letters known to Lucian (see Lightfoot).
But you can't cite as evidence where you believe the letter starts. The first line of the text is not really so different from the greetings formula used in both biblical and secular literature (or, indeed, nonliterary papyri, except for the grandiloquence being imitated from the New Testament texts). It is the "1:1" of the letter in a critical edition and comes (I trust, given the translations) from the Syriac. It is, it must be said, not a title and would come after any title of the work.

If I can make my own suggestion, you work too hard in this part of your argument. You posit a 3-letter corpus, a 7-letter corpus, and yet another 7-letter corpus, with both of the latter two being ascribed to Irenaeus (based on your references elsewhere). Okay, the hypothesis of two different recensions by the same author is not unparalleled (it is what some want to see behind the Western Acts). But you get no real refuge in this 3-letter Syriac corpus, which doesn't have any evidence for the omission that you envision.

Moreover, you rightly quote the conclusions of Detering about how the letters refer back and forth between each other, knowing that they would come to be read together. There is nothing from internal criticism of the 7-letter corpus that would show it to have been constructed on the back of an earlier 3-letter text, unless there is something I am missing. Also, unless I'm mistaken, the arguments about Lucian knowing Ignatius include the letters not included in the Syriac version (Polycarp, Ephesians, Romans).

We know from the epistle to the Laodiceans (the apocryphon, not Marcion's) that writers were capable of producing epitomized versions of other letters (in this case, Philippians). We also can't say for sure why only 3 letters were transmitted in Syriac, but one guess might involve the economics of making copies. Perhaps the readers were right to see how the original group of seven were a bit overdoing it and a bit repetitious, so they picked what they found most profitable. It's possible that they're the originals, of course, but it doesn't follow from their brevity and selection.

Instead of attributing both middle ("shorter") and longer recensions to Irenaeus, it seems more parsimonious to give him the longer one (if we accept the argument that he must have quoted from it) while also taking the standard line that the Syriac is abbreviated from the Greek.

Now that Ignatius may have never existed and that Irenaeus may have had a hand in rewriting the Ignatius-Polycarp cycle, it's certainly plausible. You've presented a fairly good explanation of the idea. I personally like the idea that Polycarp forged the epistles of Ignatius before his death, much like Lucian suggests, while the one who is attributed with the Martyrdom could have also designed that pathetic epistle called Polycarp to the Philippians, sagging with NT quotations, as a way to authenticate Ignatius and at the same time give Polycarp some kind of writing that could be called his own (not having left one in his own name). Polycarp in this way gets his name by assumption, because a forger doesn't presume to be called by a name just because that name is one of the recipients of the body of work he forged. (That being said, Polycarp might still have been one of several names adopted by Perigrinus.) I also like your suggestion that Polycarp would have been more or less an identity with the God-bearer and Christ-bearer 'fiery one', but Irenaeus has bought him a new identity through the epistle and martyrdom so that he could be domesticated from pagan calumnies and harnessed for catholic tradition.

I also suggest you might have worked over-hard in making Polycarp into Hegesippus into Josephus. Its appeal is that of a totalizing theory, once the imagination is first excited by earlier discoveries. But, really, it's not that different from the Eusebius and Origen totalizing theories that you yourself have ridiculed for the fact. Yes, Eusebius may have planted a Testimonium, and, yes, Irenaeus may have doctored some texts, including the epistle of Polycarp his predecessor that he is the first to mention (and of Ignatius, whom Irenaeus is the first not to name). But there are many other hands, named and unnamed, that went into the grand production on display in the literary remains we possess.
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Re: Syriac recension of Ignatius

Post by Roger Pearse »

Peter Kirby wrote: Here is the Cureton version:
google books

"Ignatius, who is Theophoros, to Polycarp Bishop of Smyrna, who himself rather is visited by God the Father and by Jesus Christ our Lord, much peace."

Both of the translations put "Polycarp" in the Syriac text. If I had some facility with Syriac, which I do not, I might be able to compare this against Cureton's Syriac edition.
I do have a little. Polycarp's name (with a prefix letter l) appears at the end of line 1 of the text (reading right to left). Cureton has helpfully laid out the subscriptio at the top of the English in the same way as the Syriac, so you can pick out the names in this (Ignatius has a gamal - looks like gamma - as the second letter) and compare.

Printed Syriac texts at this period tend to be printed versions of the manuscripts, often very accurately transcribed.
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Re: Syriac recension of Ignatius

Post by stephan happy huller »

Alright now I have just woken up from a good night's sleep. Let me address your latest line of inquiry.
But you can't cite as evidence where you believe the letter starts.
I think the book suffers as a whole from my effort to explain my thesis. I don't think you are understanding the situation I am attempting to draw attention. What I should have said here is that at the end of almost all the Greek letters is a situation where Polycarp is referenced like this at the end of Ephesians:
My soul be for yours and theirs whom, for the honour of God, ye have sent to Smyrna; whence also I write to you, giving thanks unto the Lord, and loving Polycarp even as I do you. Remember me, as Jesus Christ also remembered you.
This disappears in the Syriac recension of the same letter. This is what I am calling attention to. How is this to be explained? Is it - as I first assumed - that Polycarp inserted himself into a pre-existent body of short letters of Ignatius and expanded them to include not only his name but all sorts of doctrinal and dogmatic teachings or was it Irenaeus hiding and expanding the original legacy of Polycarp to include his devotion to a pre-existent master named Ignatius?

For a number of reasons I settled on the second hypothesis. First of all, when you think about Polycarp's relationship with John, it becomes rather awkward to suddenly thrust a secondary relationship with Ignatius who also happens to be a devotee of John. I suspect moreover that John never existed or was created as it were from Mark's rib. But that's another story.

Also the name 'Ignatius' is a problem. It does not exist before Ignatius and probably is a Latin translation of the Syriac name for the saint - i.e. Nurono . This is the name that is referenced in the Syriac Church (a Syriac speaking denomination). But even this probably isn't the original name but at least we're getting warmer. Ruaridh Boid of Monash University noted to me that Nurono is itself probably a Syriac translation of the Aramaic seraph. Seraph means both fire or fiery one or angel and seems to echo the sense of many passages in the Passing of Peregrinus - '“These are the two noblest masterpieces that the world has seen—the Olympian Zeus, and Proteus; of the one, the creator and artist was Phidias, of the other, Nature. But now this holy image is about to depart from among men to gods, borne on the wings of fire, leaving us bereft.”

We should also consider the difficulty that Peregrinus resembles the figure known from the Ignatian letters (Lightfoot) indeed the very composition of the letters is mirrored in the Passing of Peregrinus. This has been noted by many others including Roger Parvus. But the chronology doesn't work. Ignatius died long before Lucian.

The first line of the text is not really so different from the greetings formula used in both biblical and secular literature (or, indeed, nonliterary papyri, except for the grandiloquence being imitated from the New Testament texts). It is the "1:1" of the letter in a critical edition and comes (I trust, given the translations) from the Syriac. It is, it must be said, not a title and would come after any title of the work.

Did I say it was a title? That would be a misuse of terminology. Nevertheless it should be noted that the formality of the letters can be viewed as pretentious. What were the original circumstances of the letters? Irenaeus certainly wanted it to appear that there was a 'worldwide Church' from the beginning. These ideas have been questioned in recent years. I have developed a table last year of the relative differences between the Syriac and the two Greek recensions herehttp://stephanhuller.blogspot.com/2013/ ... canon.html:

I am talking to my mom. But the problem with the book was the way it was explained. After my brother takes my mom out for her birthday I will explain it better.
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Re: Syriac recension of Ignatius

Post by Roger Pearse »

A search of the TLG gives no matches for "Ignatios" before Ignatius of Antioch. Although I am rather wary of arguments from absence in the TLG!
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Re: Syriac recension of Ignatius

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Roger Pearse wrote:A search of the TLG gives no matches for "Ignatios" before Ignatius of Antioch. Although I am rather wary of arguments from absence in the TLG!
The name is attested epigraphically on the island of Kos in the Roman Imperial period.

http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscriptio ... egion%3D19

http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscriptio ... egion%3D19
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Re: Syriac recension of Ignatius

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And there are many others after irenaeus
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Re: Syriac recension of Ignatius

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now I'm driving my son to his karate lesson. My overarching assumption here was that corruption and expansion of the Ignatian corpus is a parallel to the corruption and expansion of the Marcionite Apostolikon. I am not the first person to notice this. my contribution is to apply Tertullian's statement at the beginning of book 5 so that makes all biographical references in the Pauline letters suspect. The corollary of this statement is that the editor of the Catholic canon invented many personalities. Timothy is a fake. Luke is a fake.the list goes on and on. The basic pattern is from one secret personality develops many false identities. it is a hallmark of irenaeus' s thought developed in Allen Brent's many works on monarchianism.

What I got from Brent was that the Catholics went out of their way promote the doctrine of monarchia. behind many stands one rule, one force. the four Gospels are not accidental. It is a bold proclamation of the new faith in monarchia that swept through the Empire in the late second century early 3rd century. in place of the one apostle, one gospel of the Marcionites the Catholics were busily inventing personalities gospels and texts under the banner of monarchia

Brent shows that this monarchian obsession extended to all faiths in the Empire and was probably mandated or "encouraged" by the Severan Emperors
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Re: Syriac recension of Ignatius

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Peter Kirby wrote:
Roger Pearse wrote:A search of the TLG gives no matches for "Ignatios" before Ignatius of Antioch. Although I am rather wary of arguments from absence in the TLG!
The name is attested epigraphically on the island of Kos in the Roman Imperial period.

http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscriptio ... egion%3D19

http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscriptio ... egion%3D19
On this topic, I have found that googling "site:epigraphy.packhum.org -something-" is very handy.

For example it turns up some instances of the Greek name Hegesippus also:

4th c. BC
http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscriptio ... egion%3D29

4th c. BC
http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscriptio ... region%3D4

3rd c. BC
http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscriptio ... region%3D5

unknown
http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscriptio ... egion%3D27

There also appear some inscriptions of a similar sounding name Hagesippos (which is transliterated variously).

no date, Rhodian
http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscriptio ... okid%3D172

Iron age "IIa"? Rhodian
http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscriptio ... okid%3D172

2nd or 3rd c. BC, Rhodian
http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscriptio ... egion%3D83

This last one doesn't actually preserve the start of the name, so it might be either.

This does tend to support the idea that the name Hegesippos lost favor as a common boy's name in the Roman era.
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