Thanks spin. This is very important.It is of interest that the name Iscariot in Syriac is SKRYWTA (סכריותא), which should have a schewa in the first syllable and a short a in the second. The Syriac writers didn't just transliterate what they found in Greek: they certainly had their own ideas about how names should be rendered. If this indicates the source as sicarius, then how the metathesis happened into Greek is hard to understand linguistically. A vowel can be inserted at the beginning if there is a complex consonant cluster at the start of the word borrowed into a Semitic language. For instance, στρατηγος in Acts 16 gets an alef at the front when transliterated into Syriac. But sicarius doesn't have the problem, except perhaps if a reader were confronted with a rendering such as the Syriac and didn't know how to pronounce it.
Zealots aka Galileans
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Re: Zealots aka Galileans
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Re: Zealots aka Galileans
"Because this better ... muhch behhtter!" (Amanda Bynes, foreign owned counterfeit movie rental store skit)stephan happy huller wrote:I don't think the interruption was accidental. Irenaeus was accusing the heretics of being zealots. Their practice of 'redemption' is connected with 'zealotry.' There was contemporary objections from the Markan tradition in Alexandria and now the Syntagma of Justin breaks up the critical - and controversial - understanding of redemption which I happen to believe is described in Clement's Secret Mark letter - i.e. the Letter to Theodore.
Note that the Philosophumena does not follow any of the ordering of Book One of Irenaeus save for the description of the Carpocratians as far as I can remember. The Valentinian section is different. The Marcosian section is different. The Simonian section is very different. THe Basilidean section is very different. The Marcionite section is completely different. This has to be explained too as the author is very aware of 'Irenaeus's account. of the heresies.
If Hippolytus saw things "clearer" (read "even more convoluted"), who are we to question his wisdom?
I'd like to see a synoptic parallel of the descriptions of heresies from, say, Irenaeus, Hippolytus and Epiphanius. From the little I've investigated this matter, the details become progressively more weird and the distinctions between "heresies" more confused as time progresses.
DCH
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Re: Zealots aka Galileans
And for those who are interested the 'zealots' are specifically referred to as qanai (Abot de Rabbi Nathan 7; Numbers Rabbah s. 20 etc)
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Re: Zealots aka Galileans
Hi PeterPeter Kirby wrote:Following up on our earlier discussion of Epictetus, I have found another text (a quote from Eusebius attributed to Hegesippus) that would lead us to believe that the Zealots were sometimes called Galileans.
http://peterkirby.com/zealots-aka-galileans.html
Cheers.
In your blog post you mention Porphyry referring to Christians as Galileans. Do you have a source for that or is Porphyry a slip for Julian ?
Andrew Criddle
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Re: Zealots aka Galileans
andrewcriddle wrote:Hi PeterPeter Kirby wrote:Following up on our earlier discussion of Epictetus, I have found another text (a quote from Eusebius attributed to Hegesippus) that would lead us to believe that the Zealots were sometimes called Galileans.
http://peterkirby.com/zealots-aka-galileans.html
Cheers.
In your blog post you mention Porphyry referring to Christians as Galileans. Do you have a source for that or is Porphyry a slip for Julian ?
Andrew Criddle
It's a slip for Julian.
As to Ben Smith's question:
The Eusebius quote from Hegesippus confirms that the Galilaeans and the "tribe of Christ" were opponents.Smith asks, “were the Christians known as Galileans as early as Epictetus?
Or was Epictetus referring to different Galileans, perhaps of the sort who had instigated revolts against Rome?”
Hence the Galilaeans were those renown as Jewish zealots and could not have been associated with Christians at the time Epictetus writes.
Edward Gibbon confirms this in Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, Vol. 2,Chapter XVI:
Hence the answers to Ben's questions IMO are NO and YES respectively.Gibbon wrote: Under the appellation of Galilaeans, two distinctions of men were confounded, the most opposite to each other in their manners and principles; the disciples who had embraced the faith of Jesus of Nazareth, 41 and the zealots who had followed the standard of Judas the Gaulonite. 42 The former were the friends, the latter were the enemies, of human kind; and the only resemblance between them consisted in the same inflexible constancy, which, in the defence of their cause, rendered them insensible of death and tortures. The followers of Judas, who impelled their countrymen into rebellion, were soon buried under the ruins of Jerusalem; whilst those of Jesus, known by the more celebrated name of Christians, diffused themselves over the Roman empire.
The answer to all this AFAIK is that Emperor Julian was the first to coin the term as it is applied to the Christians, and he did this because, as far as he was concerned, the Christians were a lawless bunch of Zealots who worshipped the LXX (ancient Jewish stories that had been translated to Greek) and the New Testament (another Jewish story written in Greek) and who, after recently taking over the Roman Empire through the agency of Constantine, had enforced these stories on the entire empire as its "Holy Writ".
Julian continually railed against Constantine and the Christians as "the breakers of [Hellene] tradition". He saw them as "lawless". His execution of "Paulus the Chain" whose misdeeds against humanity during the rule of Constantius, summarised by Ammianus in Book 19,CH 7, was a fitting end for the person who had been responsible at Skythopolis for the torture and death of "numbers without end" of innocent citizens. Julian was reacting to appearance of the lawless state religion during the epoch 325 to 360 CE.
A "cobbler of fables" [Augustine]; "Leucius is the disciple of the devil" [Decretum Gelasianum]; and his books "should be utterly swept away and burned" [Pope Leo I]; they are the "source and mother of all heresy" [Photius]
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Re: Zealots aka Galileans
Thanks for catching that.andrewcriddle wrote:Hi PeterPeter Kirby wrote:Following up on our earlier discussion of Epictetus, I have found another text (a quote from Eusebius attributed to Hegesippus) that would lead us to believe that the Zealots were sometimes called Galileans.
http://peterkirby.com/zealots-aka-galileans.html
Cheers.
In your blog post you mention Porphyry referring to Christians as Galileans. Do you have a source for that or is Porphyry a slip for Julian ?
Andrew Criddle
"... almost every critical biblical position was earlier advanced by skeptics." - Raymond Brown
Re: Zealots aka Galileans
I've just noticed that Codex Bezae also has Gr: σκαριωτης and Lat: Scariotes (here, 8th line from bottom). It's strange that it agrees with the Syriac. Sinaiticus has the initial "i".spin wrote:It is of interest that the name Iscariot in Syriac is SKRYWTA (סכריותא), which should have a schewa in the first syllable and a short a in the second.
Dysexlia lures • ⅔ of what we see is behind our eyes
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Re: Zealots aka Galileans
Its what I have always followed, and placed Judas at this cultural movements beginning. being under Herod's rule and the taxation as well as land displacement due to the building of Sepphoris and Tiberius must have left the poverty stricken typical Jew into a pretty harsh existence they were not happy about.Peter Kirby wrote:Zealots were sometimes called Galileans.
http://peterkirby.com/zealots-aka-galileans.html
Cheers.
I think in this geographioc place more then any you had a division in Judaism more so then other geographic locations between Hellenist running the show working with Herods hand in hand, and your typical Jew, less Hellenized. [if one can even make a claim of typical Jew]
Maybe not being under the Roman thumb in Galilee left enough freedom for a cultural group that wanted to fight Roman oppression and Hellenism, and they were called Zealots.
Re: Zealots aka Galileans
Another piece of evidence is the complete opposite types of housing between the Helleistic centers and the Satellite villages that supported them.
Nazareth was a hovel at best, I view as a work camp for the rebuilding of Sepphoris.
Nazareth was a hovel at best, I view as a work camp for the rebuilding of Sepphoris.