The genre of the gospels.

[Ben C. Smith]

I liked your observations on the way the narrative is framed in the Book of Joshua. It is also from Joshua (you no doubt know) that a number of scholars (more recently Crossan) have identified the source of the burial of Jesus in Mark's gospel.

Thanks. And right. The very name of the book, Joshua, may have attracted some exegetical attention to it when constructing, reconstructing, or interpreting the life of Jesus.

[Secret Alias]

Start with the assumption that the man in the gospel identified by a nomen sacrum is 'really' named 'Jesus' remarkable how it leads to parallels with Joshua. Like magic. Of course Moses's death and burial is occultated and so is Jesus's and Moses is the 'man of God.' Oh let's find some references to support that contention:

It is also noteworthy that Jews in subsequent generations were little concerned about locating Moses' burial site or even Mount Nebo, for that matter. Mount Nebo was identified by Christians who built a church there (see Note for v. 1). The death and burial ofJesus in Christian tradition has both continuity and discontinuity with the death and burial of Moses. Jesus dies and is buried, but on the third day his tomb is found empty because he is believed to have been resurrected. [Lundborn Deuteronomy A commentary p. 964]

The same Son of Man who will come in victorious judgment at the end of the world (25:31-46) must first experience the agony of defeat and death. Both dimensions — death and victory — are essential to the Gospel portrait of Jesus. The way Matthew shapes these opening verses is reminiscent of Deuteronomy 32:45, where Moses completes his instructions to the people of Israel and moves to his death on Mount Nebo. Jesus, the new Moses, has completed his teaching and now with measured assurance he confronts his death. [An Invitation to the Gospels p. 96]

At some point people will learn to differentiate between Joshua - a minor figure in Jewish and Samaritan culture - and Moses who was central to the religion of Israel. I can't wait to find evidence of the god 'Joshua' one day and his cult in lower Mesopotamia. In earliest (lost) Christianity we should expect to find NO parallels with Moses and only when the human Jesus figure emerged in the second century any allusions to Joshua were woven into the gospel texts. High Christianity assumes the original veneration of a god. The Jews could not have and did not venerate a man named Joshua as a god or as the incarnation of the pre-existent 'god Joshua.'

[neilgodfrey]

Start with the assumption that the man in the gospel identified by a nomen sacrum is 'really' named 'Jesus' remarkable how it leads to parallels with Joshua. Like magic. Of course Moses's death and burial is occultated and so is Jesus's and Moses is the 'man of God.' Oh let's find some references to support that contention: . . . .

At some point people will learn to differentiate between Joshua - a minor figure in Jewish and Samaritan culture - and Moses who was central to the religion of Israel. I can't wait to find evidence of the god 'Joshua' one day and his cult in lower Mesopotamia. In earliest (lost) Christianity we should expect to find NO parallels with Moses and only when the human Jesus figure emerged in the second century any allusions to Joshua were woven into the gospel texts. High Christianity assumes the original veneration of a god. The Jews could not have and did not venerate a man named Joshua as a god or as the incarnation of the pre-existent 'god Joshua.'

don-quixote-charging-windmills.png (74.17 KiB) Viewed 8490 times

[Secret Alias]

Well I - like Nietzsche - always thought Don Quixote was a noble figure.

[Secret Alias]

But again we come back to the same difficulty. Was the gospel - as the Marcionites had it - a product of a man who identified himself as a second Moses (= THE apostle) or was it the witness of a multitude of eyewitnesses who all saw the same human being and attested together that he was the Son of God. The Clementine literature I believe preserves the closest thing to the original truth - Paul was a hallucinating visionary. Paul, say the Marcionites, wrote the original gospel.

[MrMacSon]

But again we come back to the same difficulty. Was the gospel - as the Marcionites had it - a product of a man who identified himself as a second Moses (= THE apostle) ...

Jesus the son of Nun (in Aramaic (& Arabic), Nun = fish(?)).

[neilgodfrey]

But again we come back to the same difficulty. Was the gospel - as the Marcionites had it - a product of a man who identified himself as a second Moses (= THE apostle) or was it the witness of a multitude of eyewitnesses who all saw the same human being and attested together that he was the Son of God. The Clementine literature I believe preserves the closest thing to the original truth - Paul was a hallucinating visionary. Paul, say the Marcionites, wrote the original gospel.

That's all fine. But we have insufficient common ground to engage in any useful discussion, unfortunately.

[Secret Alias]

Unfortunate then for socializing; great opportunity for participants to familiarize themselves with Samaritanism. Thank me later

[Secret Alias]

Unless of course your real agenda is to reinforce a pre-existent set of assumptions about Christian origins. Them learning new things outside won't be helpful ...

The idea that Samaritanism preserves beliefs and practices once essential to Judaism has recently been championed by Charlesworth.

[neilgodfrey]

Unless of course your real agenda is to reinforce a pre-existent set of assumptions about Christian origins. Them learning new things outside won't be helpful ...

The idea that Samaritanism preserves beliefs and practices once essential to Judaism has recently been championed by Charlesworth.

Oh my god, if you go around accusing others who see things differently from you of having "real agendas to reinforce" whatever is it any wonder you have so few people to seriously engage with here.

I'm glad you've found a friend in Charlesworth. Keep him close if you need someone to assure you that you right and everyone else is wrong because they have pig-headed agendas.