The phrase εἶπεν δὲ in Luke and in the Marcionite gospel.

[Secret Alias]

Of course that's what we're talking about here. But the same thing is likely for Book Three and Tertullian's Against the Jews no? The original material incorporates a lost treatise of Justin surely also (I love that when I correspond with British people my diction changes in my own head).

Numerous signs of a TC are evident in Against the Jews: LXX-deviant readings (the famous “wood” additions to Deut 28:66 and Ps 96 [95]:10), (Deut 28:66 attributed to “Exodus” in 11.9), and use of the same series of testimonia texts found in other authors. Most scholars have concluded, however, that Tertullian depends on earlier writers, especially Justin and Irenaeus, for his testimonia.166

166 See Skarsaune, Prophesy, 438—45, for detailed arguments concerning Tertullian's reliance on Justin's scriptural quotations; see also the evidence in Braun, Marcion, use of his predecessors' collections, 25—27. Daniélou argues for Tertullian's use of an early Latin testimonia tradition reflected in Ps.-Cyprian 271—72) https://books.google.com/books?id=T2deD ... 22&f=false

[Secret Alias]

And the aforementioned doesn't even take into account that each existing text has been expanded over and over again with additional scriptural 'proofs' by later authors. So the argument he presents against the proposition:

Daniélou, for example, argues for Tertullian's dependence on Irenaeus A.H. 4.33.12, but in fact only two quotations match exactly, and Irenaeus includes many more texts.

Yet what the author fails to recognize is that 'Irenaeus' - Adv Haer - is likely little more than a collection of 'lectures' of Irenaeus expanded and adapted and incorporating older writers still. The Patristic writings are like a big ball of yarn.

[andrewcriddle]

Of course that's what we're talking about here. But the same thing is likely for Book Three and Tertullian's Against the Jews no? The original material incorporates a lost treatise of Justin surely also (I love that when I correspond with British people my diction changes in my own head).

I haven't studied Against the Jews enough to comment.

Book 3 of Against Marcion is quite likely influenced by Justin.

Andrew Criddle

[Secret Alias]

Well if the smartest person at the forum (Andrew) and the stupidest person at the forum (myself) can agree on something based on intimacy with a text the message should be clear to everyone else - STOP READING SUMMARIES OF ADV MARC! Read the text end to end and THEN come to a proper conclusion. There is no substitute for experience.