"Luke" wanted early Christianity to appear democratic?

[Peter Kirby]

I was just reading up on this. Turns out, my rudimentary western education on the meaning and origins of democracy dramatically under-emphasized a radical shift away from the practices more common in ancient Greece and medieval Italy, compared to parliamentary England and most modern democracies. Specifically, that elected representatives were not the norm, often with the explicit understanding (and criticism) that it was possible for powerful people to muscle their way into such positions and then use them to secure and expand their power. Selection by lot -- randomly (or up 'to the gods' if you wish) -- was essential to Athenian democracy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sortition

Plato's Republic:

Democracy arises after the poor are victorious over their adversaries, some of whom they kill and others of whom they exile, then they share out equally with the rest of the population political offices and burdens; and in this regime public offices are usually allocated by lot.

Herodotus in his HIstories:

The rule of the people has the fairest name of all, equality (isonomia), and does none of the things that a monarch does. The lot determines offices, power is held accountable, and deliberation is conducted in public.

Acts 1:

23 So they nominated two men: Joseph called Barsabbas (also known as Justus) and Matthias. 24 Then they prayed, “Lord, you know everyone’s heart. Show us which of these two you have chosen 25 to take over this apostolic ministry, which Judas left to go where he belongs.” 26 Then they cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias; so he was added to the eleven apostles.

Perhaps this is part of an attempt to make the early community appear to be following Greek ideals.

[neilgodfrey]

Perhaps this is part of an attempt to make the early community appear to be following Greek ideals.

Plato's Laws (books 5, 6, 11, 12) recommends lottery for assignment of lands and offices as an ideal. -- Even recommends the ideal division of a new polity be 12 tribes.

[Ben C. Smith]

Plato's Laws (books 5, 6, 11, 12) recommends lottery for assignment of lands and offices as an ideal. -- Even recommends the ideal division of a new polity be 12 tribes.

According to Joshua 18, lots were cast to assign each of the Israelite tribes its land.

[neilgodfrey]

Plato's Laws (books 5, 6, 11, 12) recommends lottery for assignment of lands and offices as an ideal. -- Even recommends the ideal division of a new polity be 12 tribes.

According to Joshua 18, lots were cast to assign each of the Israelite tribes its land.

Just like Plato advised. --- One of many indicators that Primary History is a very Hellenistic book.

[Secret Alias]

Either Plato philonizes or Philo platonizes

[andrewcriddle]

Plato's Laws (books 5, 6, 11, 12) recommends lottery for assignment of lands and offices as an ideal. -- Even recommends the ideal division of a new polity be 12 tribes.

According to Joshua 18, lots were cast to assign each of the Israelite tribes its land.

Just like Plato advised. --- One of many indicators that Primary History is a very Hellenistic book.

In general the use of lots to determine the divine will is widespread in the ancient near east.

See for example https://www.jtsa.edu/Documents/pagedocs ... ohen29.pdf

Andrew Criddle

[neilgodfrey]

In general the use of lots to determine the divine will is widespread in the ancient near east.

Indeed. It is still a custom in many places today. Lots alone in different sources, not even OT-NT, proves influence of any kind.