The Marcionite epistle to the Romans with sources.

[Secret Alias]

It always makes people feel like they have control over things by writing things down. I remember when my business wasn't doing so well I would scribble all these calculations on scraps of paper. Totally meaningless but it made me feel better. This sort of 'Marcionite gospel' 'Marcionite Apostolic' is sort of like that. It is worth something to arrange all the passages mentioned when Marcion is discussed in the Patristic writings but there is likely little or very little correlation between these lists and what was in the Marcionite canon. We've gone through this before. Josephus is not a 'minute by minute' 'day by day' account of the Jewish War any more than this stuff is 'eyewitness testimony' to the Marcionite canon. But if it makes you feel better or that you have 'control' over things by all means ...

For instance, the Marcionites obviously thought that Paul wrote the original gospel. It doesn't matter whether or not their enemies acknowledge this. Trump voters never say 'liberals are smarter than us' either or 'make more per year than us.' But think about it. If the Apostle wrote the gospel for the Marcionites the Apostolic must have been the name of the entire Marcionite canon not just the letters. Unless there is some compelling reason for thinking they distinguished between the two compositions of the same guy or thought 'God' wrote the gospel or something like that.

The point is we separate 'Gospel' and 'Apostolic' for the Marcionites because it is a carry over from our inherited tradition. Nothing more ...

[Ben C. Smith]

It always makes people feel like they have control over things by writing things down. I remember when my business wasn't doing so well I would scribble all these calculations on scraps of paper. Totally meaningless but it made me feel better. This sort of 'Marcionite gospel' 'Marcionite Apostolic' is sort of like that.

It is worth something to arrange all the passages mentioned when Marcion is discussed in the Patristic writings but there is likely little or very little correlation between these lists and what was in the Marcionite canon. We've gone through this before. Josephus is not a 'minute by minute' 'day by day' account of the Jewish War any more than this stuff is 'eyewitness testimony' to the Marcionite canon. But if it makes you feel better or that you have 'control' over things by all means ...

Ah, you are right. None of us will ever figure it out; it is all meaningless.

For instance, the Marcionites obviously thought that Paul wrote the original gospel. It doesn't matter whether or not their enemies acknowledge this. Trump voters never say 'liberals are smarter than us' either or 'make more per year than us.' But think about it. If the Apostle wrote the gospel for the Marcionites the Apostolic must have been the name of the entire Marcionite canon not just the letters. Unless there is some compelling reason for thinking they distinguished between the two compositions of the same guy or thought 'God' wrote the gospel or something like that.

Wow, you sure seem to have it figured out!

[Secret Alias]

I am just saying there is a psychological component to compiling lists. The comfort it provides. Not always warranted. Anytime you want to discuss which Church Fathers claim to have seen the Marcionite canon (1 = Epiphanius, a pathological liar) here and available.

[Secret Alias]

Only one Church Father emerges out of history and claimed the Marcionites [had all four gospels = Against Marcion] and chose Luke = Against Heresies.

Only someone from a religious background could claim that this Church Father, Irenaeus, is a reliable source. He does not say he actually saw the Marcionite canon. Whether or not Irenaeus COULD HAVE said this without actually seeing the Marcionite canon (i.e. 'lying') depends on your estimation of religious minds, religion, Irenaeus. I think Irenaeus could have been lying.

[Jax]

It always makes people feel like they have control over things by writing things down. I remember when my business wasn't doing so well I would scribble all these calculations on scraps of paper. Totally meaningless but it made me feel better. This sort of 'Marcionite gospel' 'Marcionite Apostolic' is sort of like that.

It is worth something to arrange all the passages mentioned when Marcion is discussed in the Patristic writings but there is likely little or very little correlation between these lists and what was in the Marcionite canon. We've gone through this before. Josephus is not a 'minute by minute' 'day by day' account of the Jewish War any more than this stuff is 'eyewitness testimony' to the Marcionite canon. But if it makes you feel better or that you have 'control' over things by all means ...

Ah, you are right. None of us will ever figure it out; it is all meaningless.

For instance, the Marcionites obviously thought that Paul wrote the original gospel. It doesn't matter whether or not their enemies acknowledge this. Trump voters never say 'liberals are smarter than us' either or 'make more per year than us.' But think about it. If the Apostle wrote the gospel for the Marcionites the Apostolic must have been the name of the entire Marcionite canon not just the letters. Unless there is some compelling reason for thinking they distinguished between the two compositions of the same guy or thought 'God' wrote the gospel or something like that.

Wow, you sure seem to have it figured out!

Tongue in cheek sarcasm suits you Ben.

[Secret Alias]

Thank you too. I am glad to have my low level of intelligence confirmed by the fact that I spent 30 years thinking about this one problem and you guys have spent a total of 10 minutes each year, and the right answer is just taking all the existing evidence at face value. Good to know that life is that simple.

[Ben C. Smith]

Thank you too. I am glad to have my low level of intelligence confirmed by the fact that I spent 30 years thinking about this one problem and you guys have spent a total of 10 minutes each year, and the right answer is just taking all the existing evidence at face value. Good to know that life is that simple.

Nobody thinks that. Why are you in such a rotten mood? Cheer up, man.

[Secret Alias]

It's not that. It's just my wife might have cancer. Sorry.

[Secret Alias]

And I am tired of convincing my remote learning son that he has to do his homework.

[Ben C. Smith]

It's not that. It's just my wife might have cancer. Sorry.

Genuinely sorry to hear that.