Review of Gundry's Peter False Disciple according to GMatt

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
User avatar
JoeWallack
Posts: 1603
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:22 pm
Contact:

Re: Review of Gundry's Peter False Disciple according to GMa

Post by JoeWallack »

JW:
Gundry's next comparison:

Mark 10:28-31 Matthew 19:27-30 Evil Editing Commentary
28 Peter began to say unto him, Lo, we have left all, and have followed thee.
29 Jesus said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or mother, or father, or children, or lands, for my sake, and for the gospel`s sake,
30 but he shall receive a hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.
31 But many [that are] first shall be last; and the last first.
27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Lo, we have left all, and followed thee; what then shall we have?
28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, that ye who have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit on the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
29 And every one that hath left houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or children, or lands, for my name`s sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and shall inherit eternal life.
30 But many shall be last [that are] first; and first [that are] last.
Chink. Gundry claims GMatthew is worse for Peter by trying to emphasize that GMatthew's Peter is looking for current compensation. It's unclear though if that is a difference here. GMatthew sounds explicitly better for Peter here as the rewards for followers are specific to the twelve. GMatthew also famously adds the Twelve Chairs of Judgment which sure sound like they are for the Disciples. Gundry defends that at this time Judas was one of the twelve so there is no guarantee that all twelve will be able to sit down when the music stops spinning. But, GMatthew explicitly condemns Judas. So the near explicit statement here of Petrine success needs a comParable negative statement somewhere to counter it.



Joseph

The New Porphyry
iskander
Posts: 2091
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:38 pm

Re: Review of Gundry's Peter False Disciple according to GMa

Post by iskander »

Matthew 19:25-30 is an amusing piece of work:

25When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astounded and said, ‘Then who can be saved?’
Can anyone be saved, the disciples ask

26But Jesus looked at them and said, ‘For mortals it is impossible, but for God all things are possible.’
No . Only the merciful god saves. In 18:22 Jesus had said the mercy of god is infinite.

27 Then Peter said in reply, ‘Look, we have left everything and followed you. What then will we have?
Salvation is a serious concern for those who remain alive after death

28Jesus said to them, ‘Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man is seated on the throne of his glory, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Jesus answered, trust me , I am a good guy. In John, Jesus says, 14:2 In my Father’s house there are many dwelling-places ( thrones). If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you?
....
User avatar
JoeWallack
Posts: 1603
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:22 pm
Contact:

Re: Review of Gundry's Peter False Disciple according to GMa

Post by JoeWallack »

JW:
Gundry's next comparison (worth mentioning):

Mark 14:53-72 Matthew 26:57-75 Evil Editing
53 And they led Jesus away to the high priest: and there come together with him all the chief priests and the elders and the scribes.
54 And Peter had followed him afar off, even within, into the court of the high priest; and he was sitting with the officers, and warming himself in the light [of the fire].
55 Now the chief priests and the whole council sought witness against Jesus to put him to death; and found it not.
56 For many bare false witness against him, and their witness agreed not together.
57 And there stood up certain, and bare false witness against him, saying,
58 We heard him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and in three days I will build another made without hands.
59 And not even so did their witness agree together.
60 And the high priest stood up in the midst, and asked Jesus, saying, Answerest thou nothing? what is it which these witness against thee?
61 But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and saith unto him, [3]Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?
62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.
63 And the high priest rent his clothes, and saith, What further need have we of witnesses?
64 Ye have heard the blasphemy: what think ye? And they all condemned him to be worthy of death.
65 And some began to spit on him, and to cover his face, and to buffet him, and to say unto him, Prophesy: and the officers received him with blows of their hands.
66 And as Peter was beneath in the court, there cometh one of the maids of the high priest;
67 and seeing Peter warming himself, she looked upon him, and saith, Thou also wast with the Nazarene, [even] Jesus.
68 [1]But he denied, saying, I neither know, nor understand what thou sayest: and he went out into the porch; and the cock crew.
69 [2]And the maid saw him, and began again to say to them that stood by, This is [one] of them.
70 But he again denied it. And after a little while again they that stood by said to Peter, of a truth thou art [one] of them; for thou art a Galilaean.
71 [3]But he began to curse, and to swear, I know not this man of whom ye speak.
72 And straightway the second time the cock crew. And Peter called to mind the word, how that Jesus said unto him, Before the cock crow twice, thou shalt deny me thrice. And when he thought thereon, [4]he wept.
57 And they that had taken Jesus led him away to [the house of] Caiaphas the high priest, where the scribes and the elders were gathered together.
58 But Peter followed him afar off, unto the court of the high priest, and entered in, and sat with the officers, to see the end.
59 Now the chief priests and the whole council sought false witness against Jesus, that they might put him to death;
60 and they found it not, though many false witnesses came. But afterward came two,
61 and said, This man said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days.
62 And the high priest stood up, and said unto him, Answerest thou nothing? what is it which these witness against thee?
63 But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest said unto him, [3]I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou art the Christ, the Son of God.
64 Jesus said unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Henceforth ye shall see the Son of man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.
65 Then the high priest rent his garments, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy: what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard the blasphemy:
66 what think ye? They answered and said, He is worthy of death.
67 Then did they spit in his face and buffet him: and some smote him with the palms of their hands,
68 saying, Prophesy unto us, thou Christ: who is he that struck thee?
69 Now Peter was sitting without in the court: and a maid came unto him, saying, Thou also wast with Jesus the Galilaean.
70 [1]But he denied before them all, saying, I know not what thou sayest.
71 And when he was gone out into the porch, [2]another [maid] saw him, and saith unto them that were there, This man also was with Jesus of Nazareth.
72 [3]And again he denied with an oath, I know not the man.
73 And after a little while they that stood by came and said to Peter, Of a truth thou also art [one] of them; for thy speech maketh thee known.
74 Then began he to curse and to swear, I know not the man. And straightway the cock crew.
75 And Peter remembered the word which Jesus had said, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. [4]And he went out, and wept [5]bitterly.
[1] "Matthew" edits "Mark's" "he denied" with "he denied before them all". This then fits "Matthew's" Jesus' formula for failure in 10:33, "But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father who is in heaven." No exception. Contrived editing is supported by lack of context here for denial in front of a group (a maid).
[2] "Matthew" unrightly divides "Mark's" one maid into two so now there are two direct witnesses against Peter.
[3]"Matthew" upgrades Peter's denial to the highest form, an oath. Related to this is that "Matthew" also edited the High Priests demand that Jesus answer with a demand that Jesus answer before God = the ultimate oath. "Matthew" has thus created an even better contrast between Jesus/Peter than his source.
[4]In "Matthew's" editing above he has increased the sense in the narrative of Peter increasingly being further physically outside. This connects with "Matthew's" addition of supposed Jesus sayings showing failed apostles being put outside.
[5] Again the connection between "bitterly" here and "Matthew's" addition of failed apostles weeping in agony.



Joseph

The New Porphyry
User avatar
JoeWallack
Posts: 1603
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:22 pm
Contact:

Re: Review of Gundry's Peter False Disciple according to GMa

Post by JoeWallack »

JW:
Gundry notes that 27:3 is out of chronological order:

27
1 Now when morning was come, all the chief priests and the elders of the people took counsel against Jesus to put him to death:
2 and they bound him, and led him away, and delivered him up to Pilate the governor.
3 Then Judas, who betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought back the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,

Strong's Transliteration Greek English Morphology
5119 [e] Tote Τότε Then Adv
3708 [e] idōn ἰδὼν having seen V-APA-NMS
2455 [e] Ioudas Ἰούδας Judas N-NMS
3588 [e] ho the [one] Art-NMS
3860 [e] paradidous παραδιδοὺς* having delivered up V-PPA-NMS
846 [e] auton αὐτὸν him PPro-AM3S
3754 [e] hoti ὅτι that Conj
2632 [e] katekrithē κατεκρίθη, he was condemned, V-AIP-3S
3338 [e] metamelētheis μεταμεληθεὶς having regretted [it], V-APP-NMS
4762 [e] estrepsen ἔστρεψεν returned V-AIA-3S
3588 [e] ta τὰ the Art-ANP
5144 [e] triakonta τριάκοντα thirty Adj-ANP
694 [e] argyria ἀργύρια pieces of silver N-ANP
3588 [e] tois τοῖς to the Art-DMP
749 [e] archiereusin ἀρχιερεῦσιν chief priests N-DMP
2532 [e] kai καὶ and Conj
4245 [e] presbyterois πρεσβυτέροις elders, Adj-DMP

4 saying, I have sinned in that I betrayed innocent blood. But they said, What is that to us? see thou [to it].
5 And he cast down the pieces of silver into the sanctuary, and departed; and he went away and hanged himself.
6 And the chief priests took the pieces of silver, and said, It is not lawful to put them into the treasury, since it is the price of blood.
7 And they took counsel, and bought with them the potter`s field, to bury strangers in.
8 Wherefore that field was called, the field of blood, unto this day.
9 Then was fulfilled that which was spoken through Jeremiah the prophet, saying, And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that was priced, whom [certain] of the children of Israel did price;
10 and they gave them for the potter`s field, as the Lord appointed me.
11 Now Jesus stood before the governor: and the governor asked him, saying, Art thou the King of the Jews? And Jesus said unto him, Thou sayest.
12 And when he was accused by the chief priests and elders, he answered nothing.
JW:
Gundry points out that the Judas insertion is out of chronological order and I think everyone would agree. Gundry finds it reMarkable that this out of order placement is next to Peter's denials and takes it as evidence that the intent is not only to parallel negative disciple behavior between Judas and Peter but also to imply a parallel between their consequences for negative behavior. I find the insertion less remarkable as the Greek Τότε can have an emphasis of cause so the English translation "then" above may be somewhat misleading (Ben?). I also find it unremarkable that what I think is the very worst disciple behavior, betrayal, would receive its own special consequence story not to mention fulfill the related prophecy. So, no points on that one.


Joseph

You Might Be An Antisemite
User avatar
Ben C. Smith
Posts: 8994
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:18 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: Review of Gundry's Peter False Disciple according to GMa

Post by Ben C. Smith »

JoeWallack wrote:I find the insertion less remarkable as the Greek Τότε can have an emphasis of cause so the English translation "then" above may be somewhat misleading (Ben?).
Τότε just means "at that time" usually. It is the counterpart to πότε ("when?"). Didache 16, for example, uses it several times to keep its apocalyptic predictions in order.
ΤΙ ΕΣΤΙΝ ΑΛΗΘΕΙΑ
Kunigunde Kreuzerin
Posts: 2110
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2013 2:19 pm
Location: Leipzig, Germany
Contact:

Re: Review of Gundry's Peter False Disciple according to GMa

Post by Kunigunde Kreuzerin »

JoeWallack wrote:JW:
Gundry's next comparison (worth mentioning):

Mark 14:53-72 Matthew 26:57-75 Evil Editing
...
61 But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and saith unto him, [3]Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?
62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.
63 And the high priest rent his clothes, and saith, What further need have we of witnesses?
...
68 [1]But he denied, saying, I neither know, nor understand what thou sayest: and he went out into the porch; and the cock crew.
69 [2]And the maid saw him, and began again to say to them that stood by, This is [one] of them.
70 But he again denied it. And after a little while again they that stood by said to Peter, of a truth thou art [one] of them; for thou art a Galilaean.
71 [3]But he began to curse, and to swear, I know not this man of whom ye speak.
72 And straightway the second time the cock crew. And Peter called to mind the word, how that Jesus said unto him, Before the cock crow twice, thou shalt deny me thrice. And when he thought thereon, [4]he wept.
...
63 But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest said unto him, [3]I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou art the Christ, the Son of God.
64 Jesus said unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Henceforth ye shall see the Son of man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.
...
69 Now Peter was sitting without in the court: and a maid came unto him, saying, Thou also wast with Jesus the Galilaean.
70 [1]But he denied before them all, saying, I know not what thou sayest.
71 And when he was gone out into the porch, [2]another [maid] saw him, and saith unto them that were there, This man also was with Jesus of Nazareth.
72 [3]And again he denied with an oath, I know not the man.
73 And after a little while they that stood by came and said to Peter, Of a truth thou also art [one] of them; for thy speech maketh thee known.
74 Then began he to curse and to swear, I know not the man. And straightway the cock crew.
...
[3]"Matthew" upgrades Peter's denial to the highest form, an oath. Related to this is that "Matthew" also edited the High Priests demand that Jesus answer with a demand that Jesus answer before God = the ultimate oath. "Matthew" has thus created an even better contrast between Jesus/Peter than his source.

Matthew 5:33-36 may be of interest here
33 “Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘Do not break your oath, but fulfill to the Lord the vows you have made.’ 34 But I tell you, do not swear an oath at all: either by heaven, for it is God’s throne; 35 or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. 36 And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black.
User avatar
JoeWallack
Posts: 1603
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:22 pm
Contact:

Do The Matthew

Post by JoeWallack »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wmoI7l ... yayFpqXkBE

JW:
As Larry David would say, a pretty, pretty, pretty good article here supporting Gundry's assertion that GMatthew strengthened GMark's discrediting of Peter and intended to show Peter as a False Apostle:

An Analysis of Matthew 16:13-23 and its Role in the Portrait of Peter in Matthew's Gospel
6 Conclusion: Disqualifying Peter
In this thesis, I have tested Gundry’s description of Matthew’s overall portrayal of
Peter as “apostate” by using the focus of the Caesarea Philippi scene (16:13-23), by
redaction-critical methodology, by exegetical methodology and by thematical methodology.
Matthew’s complex portrayal of Peter reflects his complex relationship to the Gospel
of Mark. Matthew was, nevertheless, reliant on Mark, but simultaneously he seemed
focused on displacing Mark. As the person of Peter shapes Mark’s connection to apostolic
authority, the person of Peter becomes Matthew’s battleground. Matthew gives the
impression that he recognised the reality that Mark displayed a Petrine tradition, and by
rendering Peter as an epiphanic beneficiary in Matthew 16:17-19, he conceded his reliance
on the Gospel of Mark, which was specifically a rich foundation for him. But as his reworking
of Mark reveals, Matthew also regarded Mark as an earnest misrepresentation, and he
chose accordingly to, ironically, introduce this falsity in Peter’s character. Matthew’s
justification appears to have been that he could establish the deficiency of Mark by
illustrating the “apostacy” of Peter—the Rock on whom Jesus would build his church
showed himself to be a sand heap—a paradigmatic, failed disciple. The intertextual
connotation of Matthew’s portrayal of Peter as a failed disciple signifies that the universal
gospel could not be dependent on Peter alone—Mark’s gospel had to be replaced by a
gospel where all Eleven disciples had a sanctioning role (cf. Matthew 28:19-20).1
As one reads the Petrine passages in Matthew, it is obvious that Peter’s notoriety
cannot be used to indicate Primacy. The reverse, undoubtedly, would be nearer to the truth.
A number of notable Matthean key passages come to light which replace 16:17-19. For
example; the uniquely Matthean “walking on the water” pericope, where we discover a
tangible pattern for interpreting the figure of Peter in Matthew’s Gospel. Peter is intended
to “sink” (14:30-31) so that Jesus, as the one who “saves”, is elevated as the “Son of God”
(14:33). Recognising all eleven verses in Matthew 16:13-23 as a pericope wholly alters the
subtleties of vv. 17-19. Peter is yet again diving head-long into a shocking failure—labelled
as a diabolical skandalon. It is another event of a “comparison/contrast” between Jesus (the
1 Damgaard, Rewriting Peter, 53.
54
Christ) and Peter, the failed disciple with the same (anticipated) outcome.2 The same
pattern is repeated in the decisive chapters of the Gospel where Peter is ultimately seen
weeping bitterly as he retreats further and further into the darkness, representative of his
separation from Jesus and his failure as a disciple (Matthew 26:75). Reinforcing the
suggestion of perdition in Peter’s bitter weeping (cf. Jesus’ woes on Judas [Matthew 26:24]),
Matthew includes his idiosyncratic version of Judas Iscariot’s penitent, desperate suicide
(distinguished from Acts 1:15-20). Not surprisingly, then, Matthew redacts “and Peter”
(Mark 16:7) from the 28:7 directive to the women at the empty tomb to “‘go quickly and tell
his disciples, ‘He has been raised from the dead, and indeed he is going ahead of you to
Galilee; there you will see him’”. Peter will be together with the Eleven while the
resurrected Jesus stands elevated on a mountain peak—a position of divine revelation, and
declares his perfect and absolute “authority in heaven and on earth” (28:16-20)—but, as a
“weed among the wheat” (13:15), he endures as a “non-disciple” and “apostate” amid
faithful and enduring disciples.3 Christology radiates more intensely, in contrast to the
stumbling of “human things”.
4
Matthew 16:13-20 highlights (with other Petrine passages in Matthew), the term
used by Nau—the “Matthew 16:17-19 syndrome”—a patterning of explanatory
ecclesiastical traditions that promotes the allure of a Peter who bids us a living picture of
our faulty but restorable selves. The depictions in Matthew should not devitalise other
depictions in the New Testament. Neither should other depictions weaken the one in
Matthew.5 Nau says any “disconcertion [. . .] at least in the case of Peter, thus turns out to
have been ours”,
6 not Matthew’s. Matthew’s “editorial technique”7 and intent, by
negatively portraying Peter as a skandalon and “false disciple” who apostatised and is
bound for eternal perdition, gives his Gospel extra weight. “False disciple” opposed to “true
disciple”—challenges preponderant beliefs and traditions, to move and inspire us toward a
2 Nau, Peter in Matthew, 110.
3 Gundry, Peter, 100.
4 Nau, Peter in Matthew, 148-9.
5 Gundry, Peter, 108.
6 Nau, Peter in Matthew, 151.
7 Nau, Peter in Matthew, 152.
55
“righteousness that exceeds” (Matthew 5:20), a grace and forgiveness that experiences no
limit (Matthew 18:22), and a loyalty to a Lord who reigns “in heaven and on earth”
(Matthew 28:18).8
Theologically, Luke and John negate Matthew’s representation of Peter as a
“false disciple” and “apostate” fated for perdition by showing him alternatively as
rehabilitated and reinstated after his disowning of Jesus (see Luke 22:31-32; 24:34;
John 21:15-22; Acts 1-12; 15:7-11; cf. Mark 16:7; 1-2 Peter). Or is it reversed, that
Matthew negates Luke and John?9
JW:
Of course the problem with concluding that GMatthew shows Peter ending up a False Apostle is:

16
15 He saith unto them, But who say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jonah: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father who is in heaven.
18 And I also say unto thee, that thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.
19 I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
That sure sounds like an unequivocal statement that Peter will not just be a successful Apostle but the most successful Apostle. Taylor, like Gundry, tries to undermine/resist this conclusion by righteously pointing out that in general "Matthew" has edited an even worse Peter, and not so righteously arguing that the above should be part of a larger pericope that negates or at least qualifies it to some extent and that likewise other verses in GMatthew negate/qualify it directly or indirectly.

An obvious explanation (I would have thought) is that original GMatthew correctly understood that its primary source, GMark, had a major theme of discrediting Peter, and wanted to make it clearer (and less stylish). 16:17-19 was an addition by an orthodox (of the time) to support the assertion that Peter was a/the successful Apostle. Keep in mind that if you want to make a major thematic change to your primary source you want to minimize quantity and maximize quality (effect) of the edit. The Way to do that is to put your major assertion(s) in one place, preferably next to the most damaging verse against it.

The best part of Taylor's article is his color coded table inventorying GMatthew's unfavorable and favorable editing of Peter in Appendix 3, Page 60. I have faith that even the Skeptic will be surprised at just how many negative edits "Matthew" made of Peter. I count seven different stories.


Joseph

FAITH, n. Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel.

Mark 16:9-20 as Forgery or Fabrication
by Richard Carrier, Ph.D. (2009)
Bernard Muller
Posts: 3964
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2013 6:02 pm
Contact:

Re: Review of Gundry's Peter False Disciple according to GMatt

Post by Bernard Muller »

to JoeWallack,
For that matther, the above raises the question of what was the original ending of GMatthew? Christianity forged an ending to the original Gospel narrative GMark. Why not also the next Gospel GMatthew? It also looks like Christianity forged a beginning to GMatthew. Why not an ending? Did original GMatthew just end with:
And they departed quickly from the tomb with fear and great joy, and ran to bring his disciples word.
No, I don't think the original ending was there, but at 28:15:
28:12 And when they were assembled with the elders, and had taken counsel, they gave large money unto the soldiers,
28:13 Saying, Say ye, His disciples came by night, and stole him away while we slept.
28:14 And if this come to the governor's ears, we will persuade him, and secure you.
28:15 So they took the money, and did as they were taught: and this saying is commonly reported among the Jews until this day.

Main argument: Why make the empty tomb (from gMark) fool-proof if the author intended to "show" the resurrected Jesus to the women and disciples.

The appearance to the women (28:9-10) was also added, and that before "the great commission" appearance, by two different interpolators.
GMark has a primary objective of discrediting supposed historical witness to Jesus,
I don't think so: "Mark" had to work from eyewitness' anecdotes about Jesus, not having any extraordinary and/or divine features: From http://historical-jesus.info/28.html
IF
- Jesus' disciples (and James) never became Christians (see here).
- At least one of Jesus' disciples offered his testimony (c/w with anecdotal material) about Jesus' ministry to the Markan community (see here and here).
- This Jesus was "humble" poor Jew, with no divine power or origin (see here and here and here).
- This Markan Christian community, at the time the gospel was written, and in view of Jesus being elevated by Paul as a Divinity, was expecting Jesus, in his human phase, would have shown divine power and/or origin and not exhibited failures or objectionable conduct/sayings.
- "Mark" wanted to include bits and pieces of the testimony heard from eyewitness(es) in order to provide his gospel with an air of authenticity.

Then we have a dilemma:

- How can extraordinary things requiring divine intervention be added to a human Jesus and his story when the testimony about him did not include any?
- How to use Jesus' disciples when those did not have any reasons to embrace later Christian tenets (Jesus as resurrected & Christ, resurrections, meaning of the "passion", etc.)?
- How can failures or objectionable conduct/sayings (either from Jesus or his disciples) heard from the disciple(s) be cancelled?

But if my five points are correct, then we should find, in Mark's gospel, the author facing that dilemma and providing solutions. And here they are:

Solution 1: Disciples getting gag order from Jesus:
a) NOT saying Jairus' daughter was resurrected (5:43)
b) NOT claiming Jesus was Christ (8:30)
c) NOT telling about the events on the high mountain, which included transfiguration, God saying Jesus is his Son and Moses & Elijah alive in bodily forms (9:9-10)

Solution 2: Disciples being ignorant or kept in ignorance:
a) NOT aware of the (Christian) meaning of Jesus' future passion (8:33)
b) NOT understanding what "rising from the dead" meant (right after seeing Moses & Elijah!) (9:10)
c) NOT asking about the meaning of (among other things) Jesus' future rising (9:32b)
d) NOT told about the Empty Tomb (16:8)

Solution 3: Disciples being too dumb to notice extraordinary events:
a) NOT "seeing" the miraculous feeding(s) (6:52, 8:4, 17-21)
b) NOT considering "walking on the sea" or/and the following stoppage of the wind as divine miracle(s) (6:52)

Solution 4: Damage control on witnessed failure & objectionable conduct/saying:
a) Jairus' daughter not resurrected (damage control: 5:42).
b) Rejection of Jesus in his hometown and his failure to heal people there (damage control: 6:4, 5b).
c) Near-impossibility for wealthy to enter the Kingdom of God (damage control: 10:27).
d) Disturbance in the temple (damage control: 11:17).
e) Peter saying Jesus cursed at a fig tree which withered later (damage control: 11:22-25).
f) Disciples falling away after Jesus' arrest (damage control: 14:27b).

Cordially, Bernard
Post Reply