Psalm 22:17, Hebrew Text, "Like A Lion". Who's Lion?

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iskander
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Re: Psalm 22:17, Hebrew Text, "Like A Lion". Who's Lion?

Post by iskander »

rakovsky wrote:
Rashi , like a lion, my hands and feet: As though they are crushed in a lion’s mouth, and so did Hezekiah say (in Isa. 38: 13): “like a lion, so it would break all my bones.”
http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo ... rashi=true

The Artscroll English Tanach
22:17
for dogs* have surrounded me; a pack of evildoers has enclosed me, like a lion [ they attack] my hands and my feet.
.

Psalm 59.8 is interesting, The Jewish study bible translates as "sharp words" but the note b informs that the literal translation is swords.
they rave with their mouths "b sharp words b" are on their lips

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=aDu ... ps&f=false

Chabad , Psalm 22
Rashi was a medieval commentator .There was already long before Rashi a Christian tradition of reading this psalm as messianic.


This discussion is only a game of chess , apparently
http://www.heartofisrael.net/chazak/articles/ps22.htm
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spin
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Re: Psalm 22:17, Hebrew Text, "Like A Lion". Who's Lion?

Post by spin »

rakovsky wrote:So pierce and gouge are the consistently applicable terms for describing the attacks of the enemies in the chapter that are said to attack the narrator with their sharp weapons like a lion's jaws.
While you're playing this free associative reverie are you getting any closer to realizing the supposed bridge to your tendentious reading simply doesn't mean anything like what you need? Looking through the exemplars of כרה you find basically only one object: a pit, a pit, a well, a pit, a pit, a pit, etc. There is no scope for such a verb/object relationship in Ps 22:16. There is no place for such a verb. There is no pit/well, real or metaphorical.

So the verb you need—which you can only derive by ignoring the alef in the Hebrew (fail #1)—doesn't supply the connotative stretch to get you away from wells and pits into a more malleable term that you can jiggle to get to your overtly religiously tendentious desired conclusion, "pierced" (fail #2). At the same time trying to read the term in question as כארו doesn't fit the context, as there is nothing about wells or pits there (fail #3).

All of this goes to support the superiority of the Massoretic text, which reads "like a lion", notwithstanding the problems we might have with that reading. It has survived with the difficulty. There is no reason why rabbinical scribes would have altered the text deliberately (despite some of the more irrational skeptics' conspiratorial views) and these scribes tried to preserve the letter of the text against modification. In cases of desperation they added to the text an alternative form they recommended to be read ("qere"), while preserving the original word clearly marked as such ("ketiv").

A single case of waw/yod confusion is nothing to stake your religion on.
Dysexlia lures • ⅔ of what we see is behind our eyes
iskander
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Re: Psalm 22:17, Hebrew Text, "Like A Lion". Who's Lion?

Post by iskander »

iskander wrote:
rakovsky wrote:
Rashi , like a lion, my hands and feet: As though they are crushed in a lion’s mouth, and so did Hezekiah say (in Isa. 38: 13): “like a lion, so it would break all my bones.”
http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo ... rashi=true

The Artscroll English Tanach
22:17
for dogs* have surrounded me; a pack of evildoers has enclosed me, like a lion [ they attack] my hands and my feet.
.

Psalm 59.8 is interesting, The Jewish study bible translates as "sharp words" but the note b informs that the literal translation is swords.
they rave with their mouths "b sharp words b" are on their lips

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=aDu ... ps&f=false

Chabad , Psalm 22
Rashi was a medieval commentator .There was already long before Rashi a Christian tradition of reading this psalm as messianic.


This discussion is only a game of chess , apparently
http://www.heartofisrael.net/chazak/articles/ps22.htm
Rashi based his translation on Isaiah 38, but Psalm 57 seems to fit the action described in psalm 22 better. Lions break bones with their sharp teeth in the mouth.
Psalm 57 , see attached file
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=iCZ ... 2C&f=false
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kennethgreifer
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Re: Psalm 22:17, Hebrew Text, "Like A Lion". Who's Lion?

Post by kennethgreifer »

The writer of Psalm 22 is clearly talking about his own life experiences, because he uses "I" and "me" over and over. The psalm was not written by the Messiah, and it is not a Messianic prophecy. Judaism and Christianity take many quotes out of context and say they are about the Messiah because they are both obsessed with finding Messianic prophecies everywhere in the Hebrew Bible.

I gave an alternative translation and explanation of Psalm 22 in this forum, if anyone is willing to consider an amateur's ideas.

Kenneth Greifer
iskander
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Re: Psalm 22:17, Hebrew Text, "Like A Lion". Who's Lion?

Post by iskander »

kennethgreifer wrote:The writer of Psalm 22 is clearly talking about his own life experiences, because he uses "I" and "me" over and over. The psalm was not written by the Messiah, and it is not a Messianic prophecy. Judaism and Christianity take many quotes out of context and say they are about the Messiah because they are both obsessed with finding Messianic prophecies everywhere in the Hebrew Bible.

I gave an alternative translation and explanation of Psalm 22 in this forum, if anyone is willing to consider an amateur's ideas.

Kenneth Greifer
Why an amateur? I bought this book in 2012 at Amazon . It is a very interesting book. Thank you. See attached file.

The messiah means nothing to me. :)
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kennethgreifer
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Re: Psalm 22:17, Hebrew Text, "Like A Lion". Who's Lion?

Post by kennethgreifer »

iskandar,

I have totally rearranged my self-published books, so that book doesn't exist as a book anymore, but it is now spread out over four books called "Hebrew Bible Quotes that Have Been Misunderstood for Thousands of Years, Volumes 1-4." If my books ever became famous, you will have a rare copy.

Still, I can't get people to seriously consider my alternative translations and explanations of Psalm 22 and many more quotes. I disagree with Judaism, Christianity, and Bible scholarship, and I think I can prove that my ideas make sense.

Kenneth Greifer
kennethgreifer
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Re: Psalm 22:17, Hebrew Text, "Like A Lion". Who's Lion?

Post by kennethgreifer »

iskander,

I also forgot to mention that two of my self-published books can be read for free on my internet site:
http://www.hebrewbiblequotes.com/

Kenneth Greifer
iskander
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Re: Psalm 22:17, Hebrew Text, "Like A Lion". Who's Lion?

Post by iskander »

kennethgreifer wrote:iskander,

I also forgot to mention that two of my self-published books can be read for free on my internet site:
http://www.hebrewbiblequotes.com/

Kenneth Greifer
Thank you.
How to fix, is not yet available in amazon .co uk. see file
cheers :cheers:
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kennethgreifer
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Re: Psalm 22:17, Hebrew Text, "Like A Lion". Who's Lion?

Post by kennethgreifer »

iskander,

I put my psalm book on my site to read for free if you want to see it. It has a different title "Hebrew Bible Quotes that Have Been Misunderstood for Thousands of Years, Volume 4." http://www.hebrewbiblequotes.com/


Kenneth Greifer
iskander
Posts: 2091
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:38 pm

Re: Psalm 22:17, Hebrew Text, "Like A Lion". Who's Lion?

Post by iskander »

kennethgreifer wrote:iskander,

I put my psalm book on my site to read for free if you want to see it. It has a different title "Hebrew Bible Quotes that Have Been Misunderstood for Thousands of Years, Volume 4." http://www.hebrewbiblequotes.com/


Kenneth Greifer
Thank you . I have downloaded the pdf and I will enjoy reading it.
Thanks again!
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