Vridar: Tim Widowfield, Euhemerism and Richard Carrier

[outhouse]

The deity was eventually portrayed as having a 'historical core as a martyred Galilean'

I see that as a failed proposition effectively refuted over and over again.

You don't create a deity myth while people are still living that can refute the claim. It requires many more hurdles to jump the a man martyred at Passover.

[MrMacSon]

Salm also claims that the pottery found on the site that is dated to the time of Jesus is not really from this period, even though he is not an expert on pottery. Two archaeologists who reply to Salm’s protestations say the following: “Salm’s personal evaluation of the pottery … reveals his lack of expertise in the area as well as his lack of serious research in the sources.” They go on to state: “By ignoring or dismissing solid ceramic, numismatic [that is, coins], and literary evidence for Nazareth’s existence during the Late Hellenisitic and Early Roman period, it would appear that the analysis which René Salm includes in his review, and his recent book must, in itself, be relegated to the realm of ‘myth.’”

Another archaeologist who specializes in Galilee, Ken Dark, the Director of the Nazareth Archaeological Project, gave a thoroughly negative review of Salm’s [previous 2008] book [The Myth of Nazareth: : The Invented Town Of Jesus]

Those are old views before the 2015 publication of NazarethGate: Quack Archeology, Holy Hoaxes, & the Invented Town of Jesus and it is inferred that Salm has addressed such criticisms in that recent book.

... at this point I have found his argument to be both

• decisive with respect to the non-existence of Nazareth until well into the latter half of the first century CE, and

• absolutely devastating in his analysis of archaeologist Ken Dark’s published efforts to prove the presence of early first century domestic dwellings there.

http://vridar.org/2016/01/26/nazarethgate/
.

Customer Reviews http://www.amazon.com/NazarethGate-Quac ... B019G90BGI

5 stars Archaeology and the Wizard of Nazareth
By Ferenc on January 21, 2016

This book is a real eye-opener! It not only confirms all the claims made in Salm's first book (The Myth of Nazareth), it reveals all the shenanigans of the religiously motivated biblical archaeology apologists and the Israeli tourist industry trying to keep gullible Christian tourists coming to the "holy sites" in Galilee. The firm determination that the famous "Caesarea Synagogue Nazareth Inscription" was a hoax perpetrated by the nefarious evangelical apologist Jerry Vardaman is stunning.

While I have for a long time been skeptical of all the Franciscan claims from Nazareth, I had never questioned the authenticity of the Caesarea inscription. It seemed to be the only archaeological anchor placing early Nazareth in time. The fact that Vardaman was arrested by Israeli authorities ON THE SAME DAY he came up with the Nazareth fragment is absolutely mind-blowing.

Archaeological apologists must now come to a terrifying realization: ... there could not have been a Jesus of NAZARETH if there was no Nazareth at the turn of the era when he and the holy family should have been living there.


5 stars New book by Rene Salm confirms that Nazareth did not exist at the time of Jesus
By Peter Aleff on January 26, 2016
Format: Paperback

After Rene Salm published in 2008 "The Myth of Nazareth: The Invented Town of Jesus", defenders of the Faith (and of tourism revenues) wasted no time to try and contradict his documentation. Four days before Christmas, 2009, the Israel Antiquities Authority held a major press conference and media blitz to announce the excavation of a 'house from the time of Jesus' in Nazareth by Yardenna Alexandre, as well as her find of some allegedly "Hellenistic" coins in 'Mary's Well'.

However, in his latest and just published book "Nazarethgate: Quack Archaeology, Holy Hoaxes, and the Invented Town of Jesus", Salm meticulously debunks this alleged evidence and shows that the 'House from the Time of Jesus' was in fact a wine making installation from later years. For instance, one of the walls on which the archaeologist Yardenna Alexandre based her claim to have found the 'house from the time of Jesus' was hidden inside a later and thicker wall from the Mamluck era, but she confidently asserted its unseen and unverified presence and also its alleged dating to the time of Jesus just because this is what her narrative required.

Similarly, the "Hellenistic" coins used to assert the occupation of the area "during the time of Jesus" had none of the designs the numismatist Ariel Berman claimed to have seen on them. These coins were so abraded and corroded that no designs at all could be discerned on them; they could just as well have dated from Ottoman times.

These are only some of the most salient of the pious frauds Salm exposes among the desperate efforts to keep the belief in Jesus' Nazareth alive and, of course, in Jesus of Nazareth who was said to have been brought up in a town that did not exist in his time. A revealing read that may make you think twice about many other claims by the Catholic Church and by the Israel Antiquities Authority!

[outhouse]

How weak it is to quote reviews.


Any chance you could provide someone who is credible when discussing anything in a biblical scholarship?


No one care's or even follows what Salm addresses or writes. He is a quack pseudohistorian

[MrMacSon]

Any chance you could provide someone who is credible when discussing anything in a biblical scholarship?

No one care's or even follows what Salm addresses or writes. He is a quack pseudohistorian

Do you see the contradiction in those two paragraphs of yours??

[maryhelena]

Carrier is taking Tim Widowfield to task re Widowfield's Vridar blog post taking Carrier to task re Euhemerism.

• Brief Note on Euhemerization
  
  Richard Carrier:
  
  http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/arc ... 4#comments
  
  
  Widowfield is confusing what Euhemerus did, with why he did it. This is a basic mistake of Aristotelian categorization. The efficient cause is the act itself that brings about the effect. The final cause is the reason why, the goal being sought, by doing that. Those are two different things.
  
  Aaron Adair, the astronomer who wrote the best book ever on the Star of Bethlehem (seriously, I highly recommend it, for all who want the definitive take-down of that miracle claim), will be presenting an equally well-written paper at the upcoming national meeting of the Society of Biblical Literature on this point that documents what I’m saying extensively, but it will be awhile before that will be available to cite.

So - Carrier provides no scholar of Euhemerism to support his theory - and is now looking for support from Aaron Adair.....

What Is Euhemerism?

Tim Widowfield

http://vridar.org/2016/01/25/what-is-euhemerism/

[maryhelena]

Two comment quotes from Carrier's blog

• Richard Carrier says
  
  They are the ones making this about some sort of language policing of the term. I explain my meaning and use it consistently and intelligibly. That should, indeed, be the end of the matter. I do not know what motivates their desire to disallow it. Even if they were right about the term’s past usage.
  
  Richard Carrier says
  
  Euhemerization is taking an already existing God, and converting them into a human being in a specific time and place in earth history, who becomes a god (by definition after death or translation, since only by such means would one explain why they are no longer on earth).
  
  http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/arc ... 4#comments

my formatting

So now the god who is being converted into a human - was a god because said god became a god after death or translation after being on earth prior to being a god....

[MrMacSon]

Euhemerization is taking an already existing God, and converting them into a human being in a specific time and place in earth history, who becomes a god (by definition after death or translation, since only by such means would one explain why they are no longer on earth).

http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/arc ... 4#comments

People in those days thought that gods existed, as do people today. But 'William Lane' Carrier is making a mess of it -

• "by 'definition' 'after death' or 'translation', since 'only by such mean's would one explain why 'they are no longer on earth' " = FFS

[iskander]

Euhemerization is taking an already existing God, and converting them into a human being in a specific time and place in earth history, who becomes a god (by definition after death or translation, since only by such means would one explain why they are no longer on earth).

http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/arc ... 4#comments

People in those days thought that gods existed, as do people today. But 'William Lane' Carrier is making a mess of it -

• "by 'definition' 'after death' or 'translation', since 'only by such mean's would one explain why 'they are no longer on earth' " = FFS

" Euhemerization is taking an already existing God, and converting them into a human being in a specific time and place in earth history, who becomes a god (by definition after death or translation, since only by such means would one explain why they are no longer on earth)."


Would you please explain?

[MrMacSon]

.
Euhemerization is the term given to changing the narrative about an entity that had previously been portrayed as being a god (a celestial being): the narrative is changed to portray that god as being human (or as having been human); or having human attributes (or having had human attributes).

It has been used various ways over the years. Early Christians used it to deride Greek or Roman gods as having been humans who were deified (which was not necessarily the case) ie. the fact that those Gods had been given human attributes was used piously by Christians to say their god - Jesus - was superior b/c He was said to have always been a god (prior to being born as a human). It's all obfuscation; smoke & mirrors.

People are doing the same with the definition today as was done with the concept in yesteryear.

[iskander]

Which existing God was used to make the man Jesus ?