Expansion & Embellishment of the Ignatius narrative

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MrMacSon
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Expansion & Embellishment of the Ignatius narrative

Post by MrMacSon »

From another thread -
Secret Alias wrote:
... look at Mark, Matthew and Luke. Look at the various Patristic texts like Ignatius. Why these things expand so quickly and in all directions is beyond me. It would seem that there were no controls on early Christian texts and then all by a sudden they became standardized ...

http://www.earlywritings.com/forum/view ... 358#p47358
Attestation for the epistles: Polycarp 'to the Philippians' 9; 13.1-2; Irenaeus, Against Heresies 5.28.4 (anonymously quoting chapter 4 of Ignatius' 'to the Romans'); Origen, prologue of 'Song of Songs' and 'Homilies on Luke 4'; Eusebius, History of the Church 3.22, 36, 38.

http://www.textexcavation.com/epistlesignatius.html
Yet even Eusebius hardly refers to much of the supposed genuine Ignatius epistles.

Some scholars believe these epistles were created posthumously to enlist Ignatius as an unwitting 'witness' in theological disputes of the times in which they were created, or even later times they were interpolated/redacted.

Dr. William P. Killen, writing in 1886, regarded all the Ignatian epistles, beginning with that to the Romans, as having been pseudepigraphically composed in the early 3rd century. His reasons included their episcopal emphasis, which is otherwise unknown before the reign of Callistus, the Bishop of Rome around 220.
The 15 forged letters of Ignatius: [claimed to have be written] by Ignatius in 110 AD ... were forged by another in about 250 AD that deceptively claimed to be Ignatius."

"the Ignatian letters do represent real history for the dates they were actually written"

"The first 8 'letters of Ignatius' do provide insights into what the 4th-5th century author wished Ignatius had said in support of the [then] authors' current setting. The seven letters of Ignatius being written probably around 250 AD, likewise give an insight into what was going on in 250 AD."

http://www.bible.ca/history-ignatius-fo ... -250AD.htm
Most scholars, however, accept at least the two Ignatian epistles which were referenced by Origen; and believe that, by the 5th century, the Ignatius 'collection' had been enlarged by spurious letters. Six of the seven 'authentic' letters are found in the Codex Mediceo Laurentianus written in Greek in the 11th century (which also contains most of the 'pseudepigraphical letters of the Long Recension'; not that to the Philippians), yet some of the 'original' letters are believed to had been changed with interpolations. The letter to the Romans is found in the Codex Colbertinus.
"The whole story of Ignatius is more legendary than real, and his writings are subject to grave suspicion of fraudulent interpolation."

Philip Shaff, History of the Christian Church*; Vol 2, ch 4
"Already, in the infancy of the episcopate, began the second stage of development, that of express emphasis upon its importance. Ignatius of Antioch was the first to represent this stage. Again and again, in 'his' epistles, 'he' urges obedience to the bishop, warns against doing any thing without the bishop, represents the bishop as standing to the congregation as the vicegerent of Christ. At the same time, he regarded each bishop as limited to his own congregation, and recognized no essential distinctions within the episcopal body. Ignatius, however, appears to have been an exception to his age, in the degree of emphasis which he put upon the episcopal dignity. He stands so nearly alone in this respect, that some have been disposed to question the genuineness of the epistles attributed to him. Baur declares it impossible that any writer of so early an age could have uttered such high episcopal notions as appear in the so-called Ignatian Epistles."

Henry C. Sheldon, History of the Christian Church*, Vol 1; p 147
* History of the Christian Church
by Henry C. Sheldon, Boston University
Thomas Y. Crowell and Company, New York; ©1895
" ...the episcopal form of Church government was impossible in the first decade of the second century ... [the Ignatius texts] place a much greater emphasis on the role of bishop than do the other authors we are considering."

Clark Carlton (1997) The Way: What Every Protestant Should Know About the Orthodox Church; p 158)
Roger Pearse
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Re: Expansion & Embellishment of the Ignatius narrative

Post by Roger Pearse »

Do not rely on 19th century texts to discuss Ignatius. The subject was politicised at the time, because of Protestant vs Roman Catholic claims, all since thankfully now of no importance.

The 7 letters of Ignatius were interpolated in the late 4th century by an Apollinarian heretic who also composed additional letters. But the real text has survived also. In addition a Syriac epitome of 3 letters exists, and in fact others may also exist in Syriac according to "The Scattered Pearls".
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