How Did Paul Know Jesus Was Resurrected?

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
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Secret Alias
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Re: How Did Paul Know Jesus Was Resurrected?

Post by Secret Alias »

So how should we precede? Shouldn't we begin by deciding whether the ascent to the third heaven was important or unimportant for the development of Christianity at the very beginning? I say it was more important than anything in the gospel. What say you? (a) unimportant, (b) important or of (c) paramount significance?
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
outhouse
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Re: How Did Paul Know Jesus Was Resurrected?

Post by outhouse »

Secret Alias wrote: Is Origen intimating knowledge of Jesus 'emptying himself' in Paul in heaven? The Acts of Archelaus make a big deal not only of Paul being the Paraclete but the 'vessel' of God.

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So instead of me putting forward ideas from antiquity
Are you/we dealing with people rhetorically building Pauls semi divinity for the sole purpose of addressing heretical sects and Judaizers ?
outhouse
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Re: How Did Paul Know Jesus Was Resurrected?

Post by outhouse »

Secret Alias wrote:
Shouldn't we begin by deciding whether the ascent to the third heaven was important or unimportant for the development of Christianity at the very beginning?

It was far from foundational. Yet part of the religious traditions being willfully perverted.


You would need to address the diversity of the development of Christianity at the very beginning, this issue cannot be addressed using the group as a single unit.

Some it was not important, some it may have been. But building authority based on a damned dream for those that placed importance was still a minor tradition. Not something that gave Paul as much divinity as you suggest. No where near god status.
Secret Alias
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Re: How Did Paul Know Jesus Was Resurrected?

Post by Secret Alias »

It was far from foundational. Yet part of the religious traditions being willfully perverted.
So who were these Christians who ignored the ascent? Where do we find them? Any examples of Christians who did not know about Paul's experience or considered them inconsequential. I am asking for actual examples rather than your usual openly masturbating with your pre-existent notion of what the beginnings of Christianity 'must have' looked like. Examples of real Christians who didn't know about Paul's ascent or didn't considered them especially important, traditions in Christianity which didn't develop from the heavenly ascent as described in 2 Corinthians 12. Where do you we look for this 'un-perverted' true Christian tradition developed from a 'real historical Jesus.'
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
outhouse
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Re: How Did Paul Know Jesus Was Resurrected?

Post by outhouse »

Secret Alias wrote:So who were these Christians who ignored the ascent? Where do we find them? .'
How about all the early Christians when lived before Paul wrote?

How about all those who never heard Pauls epistles?


How about all those in opposition to Pauls teachings?


Paul had so many enemies early on and his popularity was used like a poker chip on game night to prove certain theological traditions were on the right track.


These authors had quite the artistic freedom to sell their theology.
Clive
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Re: How Did Paul Know Jesus Was Resurrected?

Post by Clive »

Are not the ascension and resurrection duplications?

Why? Maybe there is something platonic happening with real stuff and "glass darkly" stuff, but we miss it because those ways of thinking are not how us moderns think? All this gnostic, for the plebs stuff?
"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
Clive
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Re: How Did Paul Know Jesus Was Resurrected?

Post by Clive »

Is "the Jesus is a myth, no Jesus was historical" only a debate about platonic real and shadows in the cave? Jesus being a real bloke who "really" lived and died is all on the platonic cave side?
"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
Clive
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Re: How Did Paul Know Jesus Was Resurrected?

Post by Clive »

The debates about fully god fully man are the direct result of philosophical arguments about what is real. Xianity is a half way stage to modernism, a compromise solution embracing both viewpoints.
"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
outhouse
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Re: How Did Paul Know Jesus Was Resurrected?

Post by outhouse »

Clive wrote:The debates about fully god fully man are the direct result of philosophical arguments about what is real. Xianity is a half way stage to modernism, a compromise solution embracing both viewpoints.
Yes, No and Not really. Its to dynamic to be so vague.

The corrupt Emperor was "son of god", you cannot tell me the majority did not look at this deification process and laugh at how easy it was used and abused by those in power.

Hell when Xianity started they were baby eaters, and atheist lol
Secret Alias
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Re: How Did Paul Know Jesus Was Resurrected?

Post by Secret Alias »

Notice that you can't name anybody John. Kind of tells you you like the smell of your own farts
How about all the early Christians when lived before Paul wrote?

How about all those who never heard Pauls epistles?


How about all those in opposition to Pauls teachings?


Paul had so many enemies early on and his popularity was used like a poker chip on game night to prove certain theological traditions were on the right track.


These authors had quite the artistic freedom to sell their theology.
When you come up with a name or two call me. Otherwise you're coming up empty and don't have a leg to stand on
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
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