Fishing for humans.

[Ben C. Smith]

Mark 1.16-18:

16 As He was going along by the Sea of Galilee, He saw Simon and Andrew, the brother of Simon, casting a net in the sea; for they were fishermen. 17 And Jesus said to them, “Follow Me, and I will make you become fishers of men.” 18 Immediately they left their nets and followed Him.

What does this saying mean for Simon and Andrew? Is it a cold prediction, indicating that they will follow Jesus and will become fishers of humans? Or is it contingent?

1. "If you follow me, I will show you how to fish for humans."
2. "If you follow me (and keep following me), I will show you how to fish for humans."

The first is satisfied immediately: they follow Jesus right in the next verse. The second can be assessed only over time.

If there is at least some element of cold prediction, does it come true within the gospel of Mark itself? Is Mark 6.7-13 enough? Or is it slated to come true only after the resurrection?

Ben.

[Clive]

"Casting a net in the sea"

What theology is behind that? Water is one of the elements, spells are also cast ....

Baptism?

[MrMacSon]

.
Could it be related to Matt 17:24-27?

There is reference to it in this post of Ben's in the thread about the epistle of the apostles - http://www.earlywritings.com/forum/view ... 381#p42381

(Interestingly, Joseph Atwill relates Matt 17:24-27 to

1. Wars 5, 15, 548 "where Josephus describes Romans slitting Jews open to get the gold coins they hid in the bellies"; and to
2. Wars 7, 6, 216 "wherein Titus – now owning Judea.. – placed the country for sale and then demanded all Jews pay him the Temple tax."
   
   See http://vridar.org/2016/06/01/on-paralle ... ment-78289 )

[outhouse]

Simple allegory.

Using Galilean fishermen to pass on theology doing exactly what the verse implies in context.

[Griff]

What's disturbing in dozens of these, including sheep being collected, and grain harvested, is that all have connotations of gathering, cutting down, and consuming, eating. Which seems like horribly terrible, ghastly imagery.

Either the Authors had tin ears for metaphors. Or there's some dark thing being hinted at.

Possibly these passages were originally about the lords gathering together and executing dissudents? As in OldTestament-style pogroms.

[Ben C. Smith]

What's disturbing in dozens of these, including sheep being collected, and grain harvested, is that all have connotations of gathering, cutting down, and consuming, eating. Which seems like horribly terrible, ghastly imagery.

The fishing metaphor strikes me as especially harsh, right from the start, with no imagination required. The shepherding metaphor becomes so only when you think about it closely and follow the image to the very end.

Pink Floyd exploits the pastoral imagery of Psalm 23 in "Sheep":

What do you get for pretending the danger's not real?
Meek and obedient you follow the leader down well trodden corridors into the valley of steel.
What a surprise! The look of terminal shock in your eyes.
Now things are really what they seem.
No, this is no bad dream.

The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want.
He makes me down to lie.
Through pastures green He leadeth me the silent waters by.
With bright knives he releaseth my soul.
He maketh me to hang on hooks in high places.
He converteth me to lamb cutlets.
For lo, He hath great power, and great hunger.
When cometh the day we lowly ones,
Through quiet reflection and great dedication,
Master the art of karate,
Lo, we shall rise up,
And then we'll make the bugger's eyes water.

[Ulan]

Just combine this with the blood and flesh of the Lord's Supper, and you know where the cannibal rumors came from.

[Tenorikuma]

Maybe it's ironic. Peter and Andrew never become fishers of men. They never deliver any successful preaching, make any converts, or perform any exorcisms in Mark.

[Ben C. Smith]

Maybe it's ironic. Peter and Andrew never become fishers of men. They never deliver any successful preaching, make any converts, or perform any exorcisms in Mark.

Are Peter and Andrew not among the ones sent out in Mark 6.7-13, 30?

7 And He summons the twelve and began to send them out in pairs, and gave them authority over the unclean spirits; 8 and He instructed them that they should take nothing for their journey, except a mere staff—no bread, no bag, no money in their belt— 9 but to wear sandals; and He added, “Do not put on two tunics.” 10 And He said to them, “Wherever you enter a house, stay there until you leave town. 11 Any place that does not receive you or listen to you, as you go out from there, shake the dust off the soles of your feet for a testimony against them.” 12 They went out and preached that men should repent. 13 And they were casting out many demons and were anointing with oil many sick people and healing them.

....

30 The apostles gather together with Jesus; and they reported to Him all that they had done and taught.

If not, what is it in Mark that excludes them? If so, is this little faith healing tour enough to fulfill the prediction?

Ben.

[Tenorikuma]

Yeah, you have that and the shorter but similar 3:14-15. But it's all vague and happens off-stage. When the disciples actually try an exorcism in the actual narrative (9:14-27), they fail. So are we supposed to regard Peter and Andrew and Bartholomew and James son of Alphaeus as great preachers and healers because of this off-stage allusion, or do we take their more blatant on-stage failures at face value? (I'm asking because I don't know.)

The passage you quote is also awkward for what follows:

So they went out and proclaimed that all should repent. They cast out many demons, and anointed with oil many who were sick and cured them. King Herod heard of it, for his name had become known. And he said, “John the baptizer has been raised from the dead; and for this reason these powers are at work in him.” But others said, “It is Elijah.” And others said, “It is a prophet, like one of the prophets of old.”

Wait just a second. What caused Herod to think Jesus is John the baptist raised from the dead? A couple of fishermen preaching sermons and performing street exorcisms? How does that bring fame to Jesus? The narrative is curiously disjointed here, and the pronouns don't match up from one verse to the next. I don't know what to make of this either. Maybe the whole Herod section doesn't belong there.