Detering on Carrier's criticism

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neilgodfrey
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Re: Detering on Carrier's criticism

Post by neilgodfrey »

DCHindley wrote: Once it could be admitted that there might be inauthentic letters based on critical grounds, it would only be a matter of time before all of them could be rejected by taking critical principals to their logical extremes.
God forbid that valid methods should ever be taken to their logical limits! ;-)
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DCHindley
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Re: Detering on Carrier's criticism

Post by DCHindley »

neilgodfrey wrote:
DCHindley wrote: Once it could be admitted that there might be inauthentic letters based on critical grounds, it would only be a matter of time before all of them could be rejected by taking critical principals to their logical extremes.
God forbid that valid methods should ever be taken to their logical limits! ;-)
Too scary to even imagine!!

The human mind has a very hard time distinguishing between "useful" methodology and "bandwagon" methodology.

DCH
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Peter Kirby
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Re: Detering on Carrier's criticism

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Ulan wrote:Compared to that, the exchanges have become quite caustic nowadays.
Uh, in this case, don't blame the times; blame the Carrier.
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Peter Kirby
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Re: Detering on Carrier's criticism

Post by Peter Kirby »

DCHindley wrote:The human mind has a very hard time distinguishing between "useful" methodology and "bandwagon" methodology.
I think it's mostly just an absence of concern either way and a willingness to use whatever might be seen as persuasive, because most people's arguments start from the conclusion and work backward to find support.
"... almost every critical biblical position was earlier advanced by skeptics." - Raymond Brown
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Re: Detering on Carrier's criticism

Post by Secret Alias »

It seems to me that a lot of these people have made a conscious effort to bypass academia and appeal to the common man with the natural advantage that the common man isn't up to speed on scholarship.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
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Charles Wilson
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Re: Detering on Carrier's criticism

Post by Charles Wilson »

Peter Kirby wrote:
DCHindley wrote:The human mind has a very hard time distinguishing between "useful" methodology and "bandwagon" methodology.
I think it's mostly just an absence of concern either way and a willingness to use whatever might be seen as persuasive, because most people's arguments start from the conclusion and work backward to find support.
Ahhh, you Hegelians are all alike...'N I can prove it! :mrgreen:
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MrMacSon
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Re: Detering on Carrier's criticism

Post by MrMacSon »

.
Salm has published part 3. This struck me as interesting -ie. the term 'synoptic gap' and Detering's synopsis of it: I may have seen the term in passing, but I don't recall investigating it. It seems to summarize an important point in investigating early-Christianity and its development (I quote the whole paragraph but only include the first two sentences so people can find it more readily in the article; in case they want to contextualize it) -
According to Carrier, the Jesus figure of the canonical gospels could not have come about before 70 CE. This may well be. But what about 100 CE? 130 CE? Walther Schmithals wrote of a synoptic gap, of the lack of any reference to the synoptic tradition among the early Church Fathers until late in the second century! As far as we know, an incipient gospel stage is first referred to by Justin. Somewhat later, towards the end of the second century, Irenaeus is the first to signal the existence of a canon of four gospels. In other words: the second century allows plenty of time for the development of the heavenly Son of God into the Man from Nazareth.

http://www.mythicistpapers.com/2016/06/ ... rier-pt-3/
Given their sparring, it seems ironic that Detering somewhat echoes Carrier in the last sentence (in that quoted paragraph).
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Peter Kirby
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Re: Detering on Carrier's criticism

Post by Peter Kirby »

Looks like Carrier is a bit preoccupied.

https://www.allthink.com/1411309

There's an old saying: ally with feminists, get accused of sexual harassment... :tomato:
"... almost every critical biblical position was earlier advanced by skeptics." - Raymond Brown
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MrMacSon
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Re: Detering on Carrier's criticism

Post by MrMacSon »

Peter Kirby wrote:Looks like Carrier is a bit preoccupied.

https://www.allthink.com/1411309

There's an old saying: ally with feminists, get accused of sexual harassment... :tomato:
Carrier had posted on his freethoughts-blog about it in recent days/weeks, but it's escalated and there are further actions and reactions -

eg. http://richardcarrier.blogspot.com.au/2 ... er_23.html
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