Creation of humanity in 1st 4 centuries

[Gabby]

Gregory Nazianzus speaks of a mix of invisible and visible, another angel etc. in Or 38.11 - does anyone know of previous fathers who speak of the creation of the human being in the same way? I am trying to find out his sources for this...

[stephan happy huller]

Why don't you provide us with a quote?

[andrewcriddle]

The passage is

Mind, then, and sense, thus distinguished from each other, had remained within their own boundaries, and bore in themselves the magnificence of the Creator-Word, silent praisers and thrilling heralds of His mighty work. Not yet was there any mingling of both, nor any mixtures of these opposites, tokens of a greater Wisdom and Generosity in the creation of natures; nor as yet were the whole riches of Goodness made known. Now the Creator-Word, determining to exhibit this, and to produce a single living being out of both— the visible and the invisible creations, I mean— fashions Man; and taking a body from already existing matter, and placing in it a Breath taken from Himself Genesis 2:7 which the Word knew to be an intelligent soul and the Image of God, as a sort of second world. He placed him, great in littleness on the earth; a new Angel, a mingled worshipper, fully initiated into the visible creation, but only partially into the intellectual; King of all upon earth, but subject to the King above; earthly and heavenly; temporal and yet immortal; visible and yet intellectual; half-way between greatness and lowliness; in one person combining spirit and flesh; spirit, because of the favour bestowed on him; flesh, because of the height to which he had been raised; the one that he might continue to live and praise his Benefactor, the other that he might suffer, and by suffering be put in remembrance, and corrected if he became proud of his greatness. A living creature trained here, and then moved elsewhere; and, to complete the mystery, deified by its inclination to God. For to this, I think, tends that Light of Truth which we here possess but in measure, that we should both see and experience the Splendour of God, which is worthy of Him Who made us, and will remake us again after a loftier fashion.

Metanarrative of History may be of interest although it is more a discussion of Gregory's teaching than an analysis of his sources.

Andrew Criddle

[Gabby]

Many thanks

[GakuseiDon]

Gabby, the following may or may not be useful. There is Tertullian:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/t ... ian15.html

• For God, they say, desired to make the soul visible to men, by enduing it with a bodily nature, although it was before invisible; of its own nature, indeed, it was incapable of seeing anything, even its own self, by reason of the obstacle of this flesh, so that it was even a matter of doubt whether it was born or not.

Also Philo (though not a Christian Church Father, but around the same time):
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/yonge/book1.html

• But he [Moses] asserts that the formation of the individual man, perceptible by the external senses is a composition of earthy substance, and divine spirit. For that the body was created by the Creator taking a lump of clay, and fashioning the human form out of it; but that the soul proceeds from no created thing at all, but from the Father and Ruler of all things. For when he uses the expression, "he breathed into," etc., he means nothing else than the divine spirit proceeding form that happy and blessed nature, sent to take up its habitation here on earth, for the advantage of our race, in order that, even if man is mortal according to that portion of him which is visible, he may at all events be immortal according to that portion which is invisible; and for this reason, one may properly say that man is on the boundaries of a better and an immortal nature, partaking of each as far as it is necessary for him; and that he was born at the same time, both mortal and the immortal. Mortal as to his body, but immortal as to his intellect.

[Gabby]

Thanks Gents! This is all very useful