On the pre-christian angel Jesus

[Giuseppe]

I read:

Exodus 23:20-33

20 Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.

21 Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.

22 But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries.

23 For mine Angel shall go before thee, and bring thee in unto the Amorites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Canaanites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites: and I will cut them off.

24 Thou shalt not bow down to their gods, nor serve them, nor do after their works: but thou shalt utterly overthrow them, and quite break down their images.

25 And ye shall serve the Lord your God, and he shall bless thy bread, and thy water; and I will take sickness away from the midst of thee.

26 There shall nothing cast their young, nor be barren, in thy land: the number of thy days I will fulfil.

27 I will send my fear before thee, and will destroy all the people to whom thou shalt come, and I will make all thine enemies turn their backs unto thee.

28 And I will send hornets before thee, which shall drive out the Hivite, the Canaanite, and the Hittite, from before thee.

29 I will not drive them out from before thee in one year; lest the land become desolate, and the beast of the field multiply against thee.

30 By little and little I will drive them out from before thee, until thou be increased, and inherit the land.

31 And I will set thy bounds from the Red sea even unto the sea of the Philistines, and from the desert unto the river: for I will deliver the inhabitants of the land into your hand; and thou shalt drive them out before thee.

32 Thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor with their gods.

33 They shall not dwell in thy land, lest they make thee sin against me: for if thou serve their gods, it will surely be a snare unto thee.

What else is necessary to see in that ''angel'' with the name of God ''in him'' just the ''Jesus Christ'' of Paul?

If the angel was already named Joshua/Jesus, then was the name of God ''in him'' just Kyrios?



Philippians 2:9-11 :

Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

[Giuseppe]

and he shall bless thy bread, and thy water;

An ''angel'' named ''Joshua'' who will ''bless thy bread, and thy water'' is the same angel who did the Eucharist in Paul?

Note that Jesus says : ''this is my body, ... this is my blood''.

He seems to do the exact contrary of any action of that angel.

[neilgodfrey]

Is there a difference between having a name "in him" and being given a name? I think we're looking at the context and history of interpretations of the "name in him" concept first, before comparing it with being "given a name". . . . ?

[neilgodfrey]

This book could help . . . The Name of God and the Angel of the Lord.

[Michael BG]

Jarl E Fossum in The Name of God and the Angel of the Lord: Samaritan and Jewish Concepts of Intermediation and the Origin of Gnosticism does set out a different view than Giuseppe regarding what “the name of God” means including how it was applied to Moses. (He also touches on Wisdom on Philo’s Logos.)

I have managed to see the majority of pages here - https://www.scribd.com/doc/126902527/Ja ... Gnosticism hopefully others will be able to do so too.

[Giuseppe]

If Moses is meant then there is an anomaly, because all know that Moses dies before of entering into the Promised Land and killing all the people living there.

For mine Angel shall go before thee, and bring thee in unto the Amorites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Canaanites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites.

[Giuseppe]

But it is true, also, that that will happen only if Israel remains faithful.
Therefore Moses fails to be that angel.

Joshua son of Nun is clearly him, because he is the conqueror of the Promised Land.

[Clive]

And I was taught in my Pentecostal circles that these examples are talking about Jesus!

[Clive]

On a number of occasions in the Old Testament when the angel of the LORD appeared, it seems to be the LORD Himself. The angel has attributes that belong to God and God alone. In addition, He is addressed as the LORD. If this be the case, then He is not a created being, but God Himself who took on angelic form. Though some have thought it to be God the Father, this would more likely be an instance of Jesus Christ, the Second Person of the Trinity, coming to earth for a short time in a human form.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/don ... art_26.cfm

[rakovsky]

I read:

Exodus 23:20-33

20 Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.

21 Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.

22 But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries.

23 For mine Angel shall go before thee, and bring thee in unto the Amorites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Canaanites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites: and I will cut them off.

24 Thou shalt not bow down to their gods, nor serve them, nor do after their works: but thou shalt utterly overthrow them, and quite break down their images.

25 And ye shall serve the Lord your God, and he shall bless thy bread, and thy water; and I will take sickness away from the midst of thee.

26 There shall nothing cast their young, nor be barren, in thy land: the number of thy days I will fulfil.

27 I will send my fear before thee, and will destroy all the people to whom thou shalt come, and I will make all thine enemies turn their backs unto thee.

28 And I will send hornets before thee, which shall drive out the Hivite, the Canaanite, and the Hittite, from before thee.

29 I will not drive them out from before thee in one year; lest the land become desolate, and the beast of the field multiply against thee.

30 By little and little I will drive them out from before thee, until thou be increased, and inherit the land.

31 And I will set thy bounds from the Red sea even unto the sea of the Philistines, and from the desert unto the river: for I will deliver the inhabitants of the land into your hand; and thou shalt drive them out before thee.

32 Thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor with their gods.

33 They shall not dwell in thy land, lest they make thee sin against me: for if thou serve their gods, it will surely be a snare unto thee.

What else is necessary to see in that ''angel'' with the name of God ''in him'' just the ''Jesus Christ'' of Paul?

If the angel was already named Joshua/Jesus, then was the name of God ''in him'' just Kyrios?

Where does it say the angel was already named Yeshua?
It could be both his name and refer to a name in him.

Anyway, not every OT angel is Jesus, and God has a couple names, like Lord of Hosts savaoth.