Mythicism among the Cathars: smoking gun
Re: Mythicism among the Cathars: smoking gun
Sorry but in this moment I'm in holiday at sea with only my smartphone. Next month I will give the reference to Peter of Verona.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
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Re: Mythicism among the Cathars: smoking gun
Thanks, no hurry.Giuseppe wrote:Sorry but in this moment I'm in holiday at sea with only my smartphone. Next month I will give the reference to Peter of Verona.
Andrew Criddle
Re: Mythicism among the Cathars: smoking gun
Whatever it is you're smoking, Joe, save me some ...
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Re: Mythicism among the Cathars: smoking gun
I think I've found the reference to Peter of Verona Summa Book 1 chapter 8
Andrew Criddle
(From Une Somme Contre Les Heretiques de S. Pierre Martyr (?) by T Kaepelli pps 295 - 335 of Archivum Fratrum Praed vol. XVII 1947 )
Google translate slightly modified There are also, among those who consider that Christ was not only, but also to have been dead several times, to the point to say that in out of 7 heavens He has suffered and was killedsunt et alii inter eos qui estimant Christum non tantum, sed etiam pluries mortuum fuisse, adeo ut dicant quod in ex VII celis fuerit passus et occisus
Andrew Criddle
(From Une Somme Contre Les Heretiques de S. Pierre Martyr (?) by T Kaepelli pps 295 - 335 of Archivum Fratrum Praed vol. XVII 1947 )
- neilgodfrey
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Re: Mythicism among the Cathars: smoking gun
Is there an online link to this reference?andrewcriddle wrote:I think I've found the reference to Peter of Verona Summa Book 1 chapter 8Google translate slightly modified There are also, among those who consider that Christ was not only, but also to have been dead several times, to the point to say that in out of 7 heavens He has suffered and was killedsunt et alii inter eos qui estimant Christum non tantum, sed etiam pluries mortuum fuisse, adeo ut dicant quod in ex VII celis fuerit passus et occisus
Andrew Criddle
(From Une Somme Contre Les Heretiques de S. Pierre Martyr (?) by T Kaepelli pps 295 - 335 of Archivum Fratrum Praed vol. XVII 1947 )
Thanks,
Neil
vridar.org Musings on biblical studies, politics, religion, ethics, human nature, tidbits from science
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Re: Mythicism among the Cathars: smoking gun
Seeneilgodfrey wrote:Is there an online link to this reference?andrewcriddle wrote:I think I've found the reference to Peter of Verona Summa Book 1 chapter 8Google translate slightly modified There are also, among those who consider that Christ was not only, but also to have been dead several times, to the point to say that in out of 7 heavens He has suffered and was killedsunt et alii inter eos qui estimant Christum non tantum, sed etiam pluries mortuum fuisse, adeo ut dicant quod in ex VII celis fuerit passus et occisus
Andrew Criddle
(From Une Somme Contre Les Heretiques de S. Pierre Martyr (?) by T Kaepelli pps 295 - 335 of Archivum Fratrum Praed vol. XVII 1947 )
Thanks,
Neil
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=48G ... EQ6AEIIzAB
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=fWK ... 22&f=false
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=lX_ ... EQ6AEIKTAC
Andrew Criddle
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Re: Mythicism among the Cathars: smoking gun
Cool. Thanks.
vridar.org Musings on biblical studies, politics, religion, ethics, human nature, tidbits from science
Re: Mythicism among the Cathars: smoking gun
The Albanists would have said secretly: “That doesn't help me who said: 'My soul is sad until to death' (Matthew 26:38)”. He is the son of the evil god who quotes the Psam 42,5, when he was crucified in the other world.
(Jean Duvernoy, La religione dei Catari : fede, dottrina, riti, my translation and my bold)
(from Liber supra stella, ed. in I. von Döllinger, Beiträge, op. cit. p.81)The belief in two crucifixions is one of their more secret teachings. They don't preach it openly, for fear that the people is scandalized.
It seems that the ''evil Christ'' was crucified in the world of the Good God, while the ''good Christ'' was crucified in the world of the Demiurge (this world). This seems to be a reflection of a radical dualistic/manichean view: the two gods send their Christs to be crucified one in the other's world and viceversa.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.